Pentax - where are the fast lenses?! - Page 3

Jester_rm · 10-08-2009, 02:19 PM

And I believe there was an M28/2 that went as part of a group of pentax gear on ShopGoodwill in the past week or so.

*Ash* · 10-08-2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Marc Sabatella

So I'd say it's wrong to say faster lenses provide *no* advantage in focusing, but it's definitely not as great an advantage as it otherwise might be.

Where the difference lies most pronouned would be at the verge of AF hunting due to low light. An f/2 lens would start to hunt at a particular light intensity before an f/1.4 lens would.

And this advantage would exist regardless of the aperture selected - although I don't see f/8 being a preferred aperture when shooting handheld in low light...

*ytterbium* · 10-08-2009, 03:03 PM

Still, the question remains. Where are they?

Pentax has explained their DA Limited philosophy.

Zooms have (almost) standard ranges and apertures.

But there isn't a true work horse. Simple fast and affordable prime.

FA35 is outdated and overpriced (maybe not in US). It is like L lens in Pentax terms, only prime.
No quick shift, no digital coatings (decreased contrast and makes duller images), plastic body, old style cap, near non existent focussing ring, arguably fast (F2) and wide for normal, apart from good sharpness it has ugly PF's and bokeh. Pentax should at least refresh it, if they're still producing it. Still it is priced at least like it was F1.8, was optimized for digital and had some additional feature (more blades/better bokeh, quick shift, better build or any other one).

*séamuis* · 10-08-2009, 03:17 PM

what qualifies a lens as "outdated"? canons lenses are primarily optical formulas carried over from the film days. since pentax can still use screw driven AF lenses, I fail to see how any FA series lens is "outdated". out of production. yes. and that warrants replacements, but that doesnt qualify the lenses themselves as being "outdated" they perform the same as they did when they were new on the market. the same way canons lenses did when they first appeared in EF mount.

so what do you people want exactly? a budget level maybe DAL type 35mm 1.4? like nikons new 35mm? or do you want something higher class but without the price tag? a brand new optical formula? im a bit confused on what a lot of you seem to want from Pentax.

*Ash* · 10-08-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by ytterbium

FA35 is outdated and overpriced (maybe not in US). It is like L lens in Pentax terms, only prime.
No quick shift, no digital coatings (decreased contrast and makes duller images), plastic body, old style cap, near non existent focussing ring, arguably fast (F2) and wide for normal, apart from good sharpness it has ugly PF's and bokeh. Pentax should at least refresh it, if they're still producing it. Still it is priced at least like it was F1.8, was optimized for digital and had some additional feature (more blades/better bokeh, quick shift, better build or any other one).

There's no such thing as an outdated lens, unless the way you want to define it as a lack of those 'modern features' of lenses you mentioned. This to me means little. What is the optical quality of the lens? The one you singled out is in fact one of the best wide-normal primes made.

I'll agree with seamuis - seems to be a grumbling discontent brewing about Pentax's failure to produce faster and faster lenses in faster and faster time...

If one can't get good images with what's available, user technique may be lacking...

**Marc Sabatella** · 10-08-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by ytterbium

But there isn't a true work horse. Simple fast and affordable prime.

The problem is that only a few people in the world would still equate "true work horse" with "simple fast and affordable prime". By far most photographers today would list a standard zoom - either something like the kit lens, or an upgrade like the 16-45 or 17-70, or else an f/2.8 zoom like the 16-50 - as the "true work horse". Fast primes are special purpose lenses these days. Might not be how you see it, but there's really no question that's how most of the world sees it.

*Wheatfield* · 10-08-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by séamuis

so what do you people want exactly? a budget level maybe DAL type 35mm 1.4? like nikons new 35mm? or do you want something higher class but without the price tag? a brand new optical formula? im a bit confused on what a lot of you seem to want from Pentax.

For myself, something in the 30mm range, f/1.4 aperture and a DA Limited lens style build.
What I don't want, however, is a horse of a lens. If I want a Dromedary I have the 31/1.8.
So, I might have to compromise the maximum aperture, but if it can't be done in a reasonably fast package, then I'll take what I can get.
I want a small carry around standard that fits in between the 21 and the 40mm focal lengths.

Originally Posted by Ash

If one can't get good images with what's available, user technique may be lacking...

Someone had to drag out that old horse I suppose. It's a given that at some point it will happen in a gear wish-list oriented thread.

*Ash* · 10-08-2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wheatfield

Someone had to drag out that old horse I suppose. It's a given that at some point it will happen in a gear wish-list oriented thread.

As long as I wasn't flogging a dead horse, mate!

A wish-list is good - keeps bringing life to the lineup, and I don't mean to imply we don't 'need' any more lenses...

*ytterbium* · 10-08-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marc Sabatella

The problem is that only a few people in the world would still equate "true work horse" with "simple fast and affordable prime". By far most photographers today would list a standard zoom - either something like the kit lens, or an upgrade like the 16-45 or 17-70, or else an f/2.8 zoom like the 16-50 - as the "true work horse". Fast primes are special purpose lenses these days. Might not be how you see it, but there's really no question that's how most of the world sees it.

Well said. Unfortunately, when i choose pentax, probably every other source stated this is exactly opposite of most of the world, as well as its focus on primes.
If i'm correct, since i bought into Pentax, it has released at least 3 zoom's ( 55-300, 60-250, 17-70 not counting L's, II's, WR's and 18-250) and 2 primes (55/1.4, 35/2.8).
And the price has almost doubled on the lenses i expected to acquire before i was able to do so, making them inadequate .

rparmar · 10-08-2009, 05:18 PM

It's quite obvious that Pentax does need a contemporary 24mm or 28mm lens at f/2 or faster. 21mm is too wide and slow. The FA31 is really 32mm which is too narrow. But if such a lens is Limited it will cost more than the FA31. Hands up who would pay that?

Arpe · 10-08-2009, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Rondec

The DA * lenses are as fast as you can expect and probably as small as any other fast zooms out there.

Nope. Still waiting on a 70ish-200ish f2.8. The DA*60-250 ain't fast enough.

*Andi Lo* · 10-08-2009, 05:26 PM

All these complaints about lack of fast lenses would disappear if we get a body that can shoot ISO 3200 comfortably and usable up to 12800... Most of the time I dont need the DOF control, but I do need the shutter speed.

ISO 3200 and DA 40 would be amazing

Cheap, fast, and small!

Douglas_of_Sweden · 10-08-2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wheatfield

I've never seen the 35/1.4 or 28/2 in anything other than pictures.
Have you?
...
Look at the size of the wides we are getting now. The 14/2.8 is a horse, and while the 15/4 is much smaller, it is still a fairly large lens when compared to the other Limiteds. The 15 Limited and the 70 Limited are pretty close to the same size.
...
As much as I'd like to see a fast 30 Limited, I suspect that what we will get, if we get one at all, will be somewhat slower than f/2.

Yes, I've seen several 28/2 copies and even used one, but never even seed the shadow of the 35/1.4.

The 70ltd is very small for its focal length and speed. That should be remembered in that comparison.

You will never see a fast wide-angle DA limited. If they will give us that it will be a DA* lens. Limiteds are not about speed, at least not the DA ltds.

Originally Posted by Marc Sabatella

... I'm sure there *are* situations where one might want a shallower DOF than one can get at f/2.8 but 50mm just won't do as a focal length, but are these situations really common enough to justify production of additional lenses?

Keep on buying lenses and I'm sure Pentax will let the DA*55/1.4 get siblings at other focal lengths.

Douglas_of_Sweden · 10-08-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by ytterbium

Well said. Unfortunately, when i choose pentax, probably every other source stated this is exactly opposite of most of the world, as well as its focus on primes.
If i'm correct, since i bought into Pentax, it has released at least 3 zoom's ( 55-300, 60-250, 17-70 not counting L's, II's, WR's and 18-250) and 2 primes (55/1.4, 35/2.8).
And the price has almost doubled on the lenses i expected to acquire before i was able to do so, making them inadequate .

You forgot the DA15/4 ltd. So it is 3-3 between zooms and lenses. How many other companies put equal R&D into primes as they do into zooms?

*Ash* · 10-08-2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Andi Lo

All these complaints about lack of fast lenses would disappear if we get a body that can shoot ISO 3200 comfortably and usable up to 12800... Most of the time I dont need the DOF control, but I do need the shutter speed.

ISO 3200 and DA 40 would be amazing Cheap, fast, and small!

This is an excellent point.
Not only would the DA 40 be an excellent stealth lens for indoors, but the performance of the 50-135 and tele primes would be awesome with clean ISO 3200-6400 images! The DoF at f/2.8-4 at those big FLs would be impractically thin for most shots anyway...