Changes to Marketplace Access

New Marketplace Access Requirements

The Photographer's Marketplace is a very widely-used section here at PentaxForums.com; we've been offering it since the launch of the site. It allows forum members to buy and sell their used photo equipment at great convenience and with traffic from tens of thousands of users.

Changes have recently been made to user access requirements to the Photographer's Marketplace. Starting on May 16th, 2009, only Site Supporters and Pentaxians will be able to post new items for sale in the Marketplace.

In order to be able to post threads (sell items) in the Marketplace, you must meet one of the below conditions:
1. Donated at least $10 to PentaxForums.com (Donate here)
OR
2. Made at least 1,000 forum posts ("Pentaxian")
OR
3. Made at least 200 forum posts and been a forum member for 2 years ("Pentaxian")

We are also going to allow interested sellers to resell items, sell items in bulk, and sell items commercially (solely for profit), provided that they pay an additional access fee. All items must still be photo-related. The reseller access can be purchased via PayPal using the User CP payments page (PentaxForums.com). It is $10/month and discounts are available for long-term access. If you are a reseller, you must have this access for the full duration of your Marketplace threads

Please note that all forum users are still able to look for items in the Marketplace (post in the 'Wanted Items' section), buy from others, and leave feedback, regardless of donation status. Access to these sections and features remains unchanged.

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Marketplace documentation has been updated to reflect these changes. All donations are processed automatically, and you will be given instant access once you complete your transaction via PayPal. Donations can be made via PayPal (see the User CP for automated donation options), or using a credit card through PayPal. Alternatively, we can make arrangements for paper checks or money orders for non-Paypal users. All Site Supporters and Pentaxians will have unlimited access to the Marketplace for personal use.

Threads created in the Marketplace prior to this post will be allowed to continue, even if started by users who do not meet the above conditions.

The reasons for these changes are twofold. Firstly, abuse of the Marketplace will be reduced, and fraudulent users will no longer be able to post threads. We also wanted to make the Marketplace available to commercial sellers. Secondly, we would like to avoid placing advertisements on the site, but at the same time, we still need funds to cover increasing server and maintenance costs. This is a fairest way of doing so without impeding your PentaxForums.com browsing experience.

If you have any questions about these new changes, please feel free to post in this thread. Thank you!

[Ash]

Originally Posted by jct us101

Nikoncafe uses the same system, and nobody ever buys or sells anything there.

PF doesn't have this same problem.
Canon and Nikon must have hundreds more fora and shops that a buyer can shop for gear.
It really isn't such a big deal to donate just to sell - otherwise, eBay's always there, along with its own charges...

[kevindt]

I agree with this new policy.

I have bought and sold on this forum and been very happy to do so, so far always getting very fair deals without any problems. Much less risky than ebay, where I also buy and sell.

The donation is minimal, the requested amount is under $0.85 per month! I donated very early on, because this forum provides friendly help and an incredible wealth of information from the more experienced users that is just not available easily elsewhere. Quality, ad-free forums require enormous effort and need funding to keep them running. Servers and bandwidth are not free. To buy a couple of magazines or one book costs far more.

Adam has not asked for this to be a paying members only site, only to offset some of the expenses by charging the few users who post little and/or don't donate purely if they want to sell items (and a $10 donation allows unlimited sales!).

I will be donating whether I sell or not. This forum is well worth it.

[stevebrot]

Adam,
I, for one, am in agreement that there needed to be some sort of entry ticket for marketplace activity and you have my support on this matter. I don't know how many times I have been interested in an item only to note that the sum total of the seller's activity on the forum had been posting items to sell and fielding questions about those items. The potential for fraud is pretty huge and we as a community have been very fortunate that the incidence of misdeed is as low as it has been.

As for the matter of money vs. number of posts vs. time as a member...from the very beginning, I personally placed a high value on the more senior members of PF, their knowledge, their integrity, and their willingness to help. Accumulated contributions (posts or money) are an indication of integrity. Now, it might be argued that I made this comment out of self-interest, but I have never sold on the marketplace and really don't intend to sell in the near future.

One other thing to consider might be requiring additional personal information from sellers.

Steve

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stevebrot

Adam,
I, for one, am in agreement that there needed to be some sort of entry ticket for marketplace activity and you have my support on this matter. I don't know how many times I have been interested in an item only to note that the sum total of the seller's activity on the forum had been posting items to sell and fielding questions about those items.

One thing to consider might be requiring additional personal information from sellers.

Steve

I'm hoping that requiring sellers to donate via either PayPal or check will provide enough information to prevent fraudulent sales.

Thanks for the post Steve.

[Venturi]

Well chock up another vote to the "Yay" side of things. It's a smart move no matter how you slice it as far as I'm concerned.

I suspect many of the nay-sayers just really don't understand what it costs to run a site like this. vBulletin is not free; it's around $165 up front for the full licensed version and there's an annual fee to continue receiving updates and patches. Domains are cheap, but not free. Managed web hosting is certainly not free. I am assuming the server this site runs on is either a dedicated box or a pretty beefy VPS - that's in the $150 to $200 per month area. And what about Adam's time keeping it all running? There's blood sweat and tears on Adam's part to install software patches, program custom functionality (like the mods he just did for the Post Your Photos section) and just making sure the server keeps running at 100% everytime there's a post frenzy in the Rumors section.

He's not requiring anything for members to come here and burn his bandwidth participating in threads, gaining unique knowledge of both Pentax camera systems and photography. That's all 100% free and there are master classes being held every day in the discussions. All the new rules are saying is that if you wish to profit from the sale of your gear through the classified advertising section here that you either pony up an annual fee of $10 or just have enough of a history here to establish yourself as more than a drive-by pawn broker.

From my own perspective, if that poses a problem for some marketeers then all the better the rule exists.

[kev.pride]

Adam, I have been meaning to donate for ages, have bought several items off the forum marketplace so I hope it continues. If this helps I've just donated. Mind you the exchange rate is a killer.

thanks

Kevin

[deadwolfbones]

I find it pretty amusing that despite having 20+ positive feedback I'll still have to pay if I want to sell anything in the next few months.

$10 isn't a huge deal, but it certainly is an annoyance. The fraudulent posting seems extraordinarily low here to begin with.

Oh well. I understand the impulse and I understand that such a rule has to be applied across the board.

Perhaps you could add another "loophole" a la site supporters/pentaxians for those who already had 5+ or 10+ positive feedback before the system went into effect?

edit: went ahead and made a donation, but I still think the above should be considered.

[K-9]

If you're not meeting the criteria to post items for sale in the marketplace here, is it alright to post that you have such and such item in an ebay auction and put a link to it?

[rpriedhorsky]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'll go ahead and make a collective response here, in an effort to address everyone's concerns and thoughts.

(To prefix this, I'm fine with the changes. I might quibble with some details, but that would happen with any plan and overall it seems sensible and I support it.)

Was there any opportunity for community members to discuss this change or give input before it was handed down? I didn't see one, but I wasn't really looking.

I agree that Adam should have the final say, but I would feel a lot better about donating again if I knew that I could participate (in a small way) in decision-making processes about the site.

[Peter Zack]

Originally Posted by K-9

If you're not meeting the criteria to post items for sale in the marketplace here, is it alright to post that you have such and such item in an ebay auction and put a link to it?

Two of the rules from the outset with Ebay auctions are the following:

# You may only place links to your own eBay auctions after the auctioned item has been listed in the Marketplace for at least one week
# You may not post links to others' eBay auctions

[Nowhere Matt]

It is Adam's site. It is much of his work and the work of others that helps it's structure. There are so many great contributions from a great many members and every day you can come here and be inspired or gain knowledge. I am not sure if there is a difference between a person who creates an account, posts very little but in return reads from a wealth of information and world of experience all without the conscience of donating to the system or a person who creates an account, post very little and has ultimately come to the site only to try and sell some camera equipment without the conscience of donating to the system.
I think most of us are smart enough to carefully think about buying from someone who seems to have only come here to sell some gear and there are very good points made about not asking for donations. And I can sympathize with those who choose not to transfer money online or give financial and personal information to set up online banking such as PayPal. But I do also agree that this site is a special one and there are many genuinely fantastic members here giving and giving and helping and sharing.
The ten bucks is yours of course but it would be well spent here.

[Damn Brit]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Matt

And I can sympathize with those who choose not to transfer money online or give financial and personal information to set up online banking such as PayPal.

Don't forget though that if people use the Marketplace, they're more than likely to use Paypal anyway.

[Canada_Rockies]

I approve. Once a year $10 is no big deal. I donated long ago, and will continue to donate to keep this forum alive. It is well worth the tiny amount for all I get out of it.

[Edit] I thought about it and kicked in another donation even though my year isn't up until November. Keep Pentax Forums on the web.

[keithlester]

One more in complete agreement with Adam's actions. The marketplace here is one of the safest I have used, I would rather trust a feedback of two or three here than 100 on fleabay. I have enjoyed trading and buying and selling here.

[m8o]

Originally Posted by roentarre

Glad that this is finally coming to fruition. Most Olympus forums charge a premium for members to sell lenses in their own forums. So 10 dollar is really a bargain.

I agree. Having been witness to some pretty nasty buyer's experiences play-out in the forum here, I'd been a long-time supporter that selling restrictions be put in place as it had been in other forums I frequent. So I'm all for it. I would further think the donation level option could/should be increased to someone being a $25 or $50-level donater or above; if the're not to be a long-time member or frequent posting member. The posting requirement option to permit selling seems to far outweigh the donation cost amount.