Hello, a question regarding RAW vs. JPEG

Nanthiel · 12-23-2008, 03:25 PM

Hello there!

I've gotten a few pictures back from a lab and they're very different to what I see on the screen. I can only assume it's because my cheap monitor isn't calibrated... I don't really have the money to buy a calibrator, neither do I know anyone with one.

My question is, whether it would be better to shoot JPEG and trust the camera with the colours, contrast and everything else settings, rather than shooting PEF and adjusting the settings incorrectly due to an uncalibrated monitor?

Do I have any other options?

(Of course if there -really- is no other way, I will manage to get a calibrator — somehow. Um, which ones would you prefer?)

Thanks in advance!

Nanthiel

attack11 · 12-23-2008, 03:36 PM

shoot raw, turn the red saturation down a bit (-10 if it's adobe camera raw) and you're set. buy a calibration tool when you can; it'll help drastically regardless of how cheap your monitor is.

a spyder2express is generally the best low end tool because it's just a limited software bundle.

Nanthiel · 12-23-2008, 03:48 PM

Isn't raw processing though totally dependent of how the raw processor interprets the image? So different raw processors output different images... how do I know what to use for mine? (Raw Therapee)

Also, my problem is more the contrast/brightness/black level/gamma (whichever of these my problem is? — the printed images are far darker) than colours... after I can actually see anything, I'll focus on the colours... =/

attack11 · 12-23-2008, 03:52 PM

raws contain the camera's default processing settings; so if you just turn down the red saturation and leave the rest untouched you're gonna get a jpg without the usual high red saturation of a ccd.

the amount to adjust the saturation depends on the converter, and i only use acr.

if the images are coming out dark that means your monitor is too bright. try putting it back to default and make a judgement call if it's too red or green; turn that channel down a little and get a calibration tool. they work by setting the monitor to defaults (zero) and reading the differences of what the various test shades should be, and what it's getting from the screen. the profile won't do magic on a cheap tn panel (6bit, poor viewing angles, etc) .. but you won't believe the difference.

you can't get accurate prints if you can't make accurate digital proofs on screen.

Nanthiel · 12-23-2008, 04:04 PM

By the way, I'm using a K20. You mentioned a 'CCD', I guess that's a sensor type? I think the K20 has a CMOS, so do I still need to reduce the reds?

My LCD doesn't seem to have any sort of tinting, but that could be just my eyes.. a grey looks grey and not greenish or blueish. Also, setting anything on the LCD's settings doesn't change the brightness enough... when I messed with the Gamma settings, that seemed to help (also, if I follow online gamma charts and adjust the gamma accordingly, the screen gets a lot darker, so I guess it should be like that?)

attack11 · 12-23-2008, 04:08 PM

having a cmos helps, you don't have to defaultly correct any saturation.

every lcd has a tint. tn are usually too red, mva/ips are usually a little too green. it's really impossible to explain in text that someone's monitor isn't giving them accurate color 'cause you have nothing to reference; nothing's shown you proper color yet.

Nanthiel · 12-23-2008, 04:29 PM

Yeah, I guess so. In fact the prints are a bit too red, to be honest... but I'd need a reference sheet of colours or something to compare the screen to... and ambient light would probably be a huge factor, and a problem, there... I guess a calibrator is the only true viable choice.

emalvick · 12-24-2008, 11:01 AM

If you can't get a calibrator just yet, why don't you adjust your monitor to match the prints you have?

I used to do this in the past because I wasn't aware of calibrators and I wanted to be sure what I was seeing was what I was going to get back from a printer. Thus I figured if I printed an image and then adjusted the monitor so the image on the monitor roughly matched the printed image, then I would be happy with the results, and I was (there are always exceptions or challenging shots that will give problems).

This is obviously not an exact way to do it, but it gets you much closer than no calibration at all.

Nanthiel · 12-24-2008, 03:48 PM

I did that to an extent by setting my gamma setting to 0.7 (for all colours) instead of the default 1.0. Everything gets more contrasty, of course... but the on-screen picture is closer to the prints. It's even a little bit more closer if I set it to 0.6... but following online gamma charts, the best setting kind of always hits 0.7, so I decided to use that.
The colours are still not exactly like on the print, but the images generally are a lot closer.

*maxwell1295* · 12-24-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by emalvick

If you can't get a calibrator just yet, why don't you adjust your monitor to match the prints you have?

I used to do this in the past because I wasn't aware of calibrators and I wanted to be sure what I was seeing was what I was going to get back from a printer. Thus I figured if I printed an image and then adjusted the monitor so the image on the monitor roughly matched the printed image, then I would be happy with the results, and I was (there are always exceptions or challenging shots that will give problems).

This is obviously not an exact way to do it, but it gets you much closer than no calibration at all.

That's an interesting way to look at it....makes sense too. I've been lucky with my prints done at Costco looking exactly like my monitor (a relatively cheap Acer widescreen LCD).

SpecialK · 12-24-2008, 11:11 PM

I just use the first link.

http://www.jasc.com/support/kb/articles/monitor.asp

Display Calibration - DisplayCalibration.com - Calibrate your computer display or monitor online for optimal viewing. Brightness, contrast, color depth, resolution and freeware software downloads.

Display Calibration - DisplayCalibration.com - Calibrate your computer display or monitor online for optimal viewing. Brightness, contrast, color depth, resolution and freeware software downloads.

Photo Friday: Monitor Calibration Tool

After tweaking, look in the larger gallery threads. Do the images there look right? Do your images look about the same as those in the galleries? If so, you are set.

Mike Cash · 12-25-2008, 06:00 AM

Monitor Calibration Wizard is free. Even if you don't do color calibration with it, it is very handy for adjusting brightness and contrast on your monitor.