AdobeRGB, sRGB and Adobe Camera Raw

Kornbread · 07-07-2009, 02:05 PM

Right now I have my k200d set to use the sRGB color space and save to the DNG format. The problem I've run into is that when I open the RAW file in Adobe Camera Raw, it assumes that I want to use the AdobeRGB color space when I save it as a jpg.

This adds an additional step to my post processing (one I usually forget about), and has become a huge inconvenience.

Is there a way to tell Adobe Camera Raw (or any other component in the process) that I never ever want to use AdobeRGB, and I always want to use sRGB?

pschlute · 07-07-2009, 02:22 PM

There will be a setting in "colour settings" in your adobe program where you can select srgb as default.

The camera setting will have no affect on the raw file as the colour space is only relevant when you are saving an image as a jpg;tiff;psd etc.

*MacGirl* · 07-07-2009, 02:42 PM

In Photoshop under "Color Settings," if you always want your file converted to sRGB, then set RGB working color space to "sRGB," for working space policies you should select "Convert to Working Space," and make sure "Ask When Opening" is unchecked.

Kornbread · 07-07-2009, 02:44 PM

I think that will do the trick MacGirl. Thanks!

tlwyse · 07-07-2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kornbread

Right now I have my k200d set to use the sRGB color space and save to the DNG format.

First off, the color space setting in the camera applies ONLY to JPEGs, not RAW/DNG. By definition, the RAW is the entire sensor data and not yet "confined" to a particular color space. If you're shooting RAW+JPEG, sRGb would only apply to the processed JPEG.

As to changing ACR to default to sRGB, you simply need to change the preference and it should stay at that setting until you change it again. It's "sticky" so it will always be at the last setting you used. I'm not sure WHY you would want to restrict your RAW to the rather confining sRGB color space since there's more "color" in the RAW data but to each his own I guess.

Regards,
Terry

attack11 · 07-07-2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by tlwyse

First off, the color space setting in the camera applies ONLY to JPEGs, not RAW/DNG. By definition, the RAW is the entire sensor data and not yet "confined" to a particular color space. If you're shooting RAW+JPEG, sRGb would only apply to the processed JPEG.

As to changing ACR to default to sRGB, you simply need to change the preference and it should stay at that setting until you change it again. It's "sticky" so it will always be at the last setting you used. I'm not sure WHY you would want to restrict your RAW to the rather confining sRGB color space since there's more "color" in the RAW data but to each his own I guess.

Regards,
Terry

argb only matters if you're printing on a printer with proper argb support. srgb is ideal otherwise... unless you're one of the lucky that has a wide gamut monitor and have it calibrated.

it'd be kinda hilarious if you work in argb with an srgb monitor.

Kornbread · 07-07-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by tlwyse

First off, the color space setting in the camera applies ONLY to JPEGs, not RAW/DNG. By definition, the RAW is the entire sensor data and not yet "confined" to a particular color space. If you're shooting RAW+JPEG, sRGb would only apply to the processed JPEG.

Which is why I was confused as to why ACR assumes that DNG should use AdobeRGB when pulled into photoshop and saved as a Jpg.

Originally Posted by tlwyse

As to changing ACR to default to sRGB, you simply need to change the preference and it should stay at that setting until you change it again. It's "sticky" so it will always be at the last setting you used.

Where do I make those changes in ACR?

Originally Posted by tlwyse

I'm not sure WHY you would want to restrict your RAW to the rather confining sRGB color space since there's more "color" in the RAW data but to each his own I guess.

Simple. Most printers (yes even professional printing services) don't support AdobeRGB.

attack11 · 07-07-2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kornbread

Where do I make those changes in ACR?

usually the output sticks, but if some reason it's not load a raw with the defaults, change the output settings and then click the little icon on the right side that's a few lines and choose new defaults.

*Ash* · 07-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kornbread

Most printers (yes even professional printing services) don't support AdobeRGB.

Indeed this is a common problem - you have images that contain rich wide gamuts of colours which ultimately don't get used when being viewed or printed. All but one of my pro printers used in the past require images in sRGB. Seems like a waste, but that's the way the cookie crumbles...

attack11 · 07-07-2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ash

Indeed this is a common problem - you have images that contain rich wide gamuts of colours which ultimately don't get used when being viewed or printed. All but one of my pro printers used in the past require images in sRGB. Seems like a waste, but that's the way the cookie crumbles...

argb doesn't even contain all of the colors of pro printers, so it's a totally moot argument. the majority of high end will be srgb, except the odd / niche / extremely high end printer; and color correction + monitor is in the 30k range for that.

Kornbread · 07-07-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by attack11

usually the output sticks, but if some reason it's not load a raw with the defaults, change the output settings and then click the little icon on the right side that's a few lines and choose new defaults.

Thanks. I made those changes. That should work from the ACR side of things.

Since we are on the subject. Does anyone have an online printing service that they like that supports AdobeRGB?

attack11 · 07-07-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Kornbread

Thanks. I made those changes. That should work from the ACR side of things.

Since we are on the subject. Does anyone have an online printing service that they like that supports AdobeRGB?

you're better off working with a printer that provides you with the icc profiles of the hardware/paper... unless you have an argb monitor and colorimeter and spectrometer.

the idea that argb is superior to srgb is a whole new level of pixel peeping.

davemdsn · 07-07-2009, 10:41 PM

WHCC supports AdobeRGB color space and they will also send you the icc profiles for their papers. I have had excellent success with them for several years.

I have to disagree with the comment about this issue being a new level of pixel peeping. I can see the difference in the print. Most particularly in reds, oranges and purples. If highly saturated these hues will go outside the sRGB gamut and show up as patches of color without detail in a good print. That's not pixel peeping, that's naked eye to naked print.

I do agree that sRGB is necessary for things like web or most consumer printers. In the case of a good pro print lab the larger gamut is a good thing.

attack11 · 07-08-2009, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by davemdsn

WHCC supports AdobeRGB color space and they will also send you the icc profiles for their papers. I have had excellent success with them for several years.

I have to disagree with the comment about this issue being a new level of pixel peeping. I can see the difference in the print. Most particularly in reds, oranges and purples. If highly saturated these hues will go outside the sRGB gamut and show up as patches of color without detail in a good print. That's not pixel peeping, that's naked eye to naked print.

I do agree that sRGB is necessary for things like web or most consumer printers. In the case of a good pro print lab the larger gamut is a good thing.

if you edit in a colorspace with hardware that can't display the colorspace, how can you be accurate? don't get me wrong, i think if you have a wide gamut monitor you'd be a fool not to use it to it's full potential, but how many of us have $5-10k invested in their display & have the calibration tools?

the largest print lab in the states (millers/mpix) is srgb only for very legit reasons.

tlwyse · 07-08-2009, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kornbread

Most printers (yes even professional printing services) don't support AdobeRGB.

This is the second time I've heard the comment that printers don't "support" AdobeRGB and I'm not sure where this comes from. AFAIK, printer drivers are not hard-wired to a particular color space.

I may be the oddball on this but I'm one of those that creates custom profiles for all my printer+media combinations and I can tell you not only do these printers "support" aRGB, they actually EXCEED aRGB's color gamut in certain areas.

In addition to that, if you're using a RIP (I use ColorBurst and GMG Colorproof) you can generally get better results than simply printing through the manufacturer's drivers.

Bottom line, if you're restricting the rendering and printing of your images to sRGB, then you're simply not taking advantage of the "gamut volume" that both your camera and your printing system is capable of . I can show gamut plots that prove this if anybody is interested.

Regards,
Terry