Highly saturated subjects in PPL/RAW

*ytterbium* · 08-17-2009, 12:45 AM

How do you process such images in PPL. Is there other FREE or CHEAP(but Linux support then) RAW tool you use to achieve good colour reproduction in highly saturated subjects.

With default settings/camera JPEG or simple adjustments (like increase "preserve brightness" and hue) i still get complete mess (severe colour clipping) or must use extensive desaturation which again, produces unrealistic results.

A quick comparison - PPL/default/desaturated:

Picasa:

P.S. I kind of dislike picasa's work flow. For being too automated and not knowing where and when what is overwritten or saved as a new file. But in general i like the results i get with it, but would like to be able to achieve them in PPL or other processing environment giving more controls (like curves, colour schemes, sophisticated WB tool, noise removal settings and similar things PICASA lacks).

photog · 08-17-2009, 01:39 AM

Lightroom is my preferred tool for processing both JPG's and RAW files. It can handle vivid reds, ornages and yellows that any 8 bit program such as picasa will not be able to process without loss of data. LR 2 processes in 16 bit approaching ProPhoto RGB a much wider colour space and does not lose nearly as much colours. You print directly from LR which down mixes the image as needed directly to your printer. It is not necessary to save your RAW file.
A purist may well argue that it MUST rerender the image. While this may well be the case you never see the temp file or clutter your HDD with multiple copies of the image. After all when you type a letter Winword produces multiple temp files. Who cares?
At any rate it is worth the effort to try LR2 and experience non-destructive image processing.

*ytterbium* · 08-17-2009, 01:53 AM

Thanks for suggestion. Actually i did not know that Picasa processes RAW in 8-bits. Still it achieves good enough colours. At least on my LCD.
Only thing it lacks is more extended functionality, user control and strict file access (like i said, now it writes directly to original file after you do cropping for example).
Well, but its not quite free or affordable.

P.S. I think it has already been written somewhere, but i've noticed that PPL does a little untold cropping, compared to other software (Picasa, XDepth).
Do you know any thread related to this?

Arpe · 08-17-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ytterbium

P.S. I think it has already been written somewhere, but i've noticed that PPL does a little untold cropping, compared to other software (Picasa, XDepth).
Do you know any thread related to this?

Perhaps you have the lens correction turned on, if using a K-7 that is.

*ytterbium* · 08-17-2009, 11:32 PM

I'm using k200d. But i guess your'e right, i heard it in some K-7 topic.
Just managed to run UFRAW. Seems to be a decent tool aswell.

Just had some look at the cropping thing. The sizes are like this:
3872 x 2592 From pentax (Camera or PPL),
3896 x 2616 Other RAW conversion software (Tried Picasa, UFRAW, XDEPTH).
When visualized the difference is negligible, but still interesting to note:

Shown is Picasa conversion (seen as a darker frame) with Pentax JPEG on top of it.

photog · 08-19-2009, 12:00 AM

I have not used the Pentax software since I tried it for a week or two after I first got the K10D. I didn't like it after using Adobe Camera RAW in Adobe Bridge. If the price of the Afobe software is to high you might consider the Adobe Elements. Most of the features you would need are there. It has a version of Bridge theat can handle RAW and JPG files. The changes made are NON-destructive, only the meta-date is changed. When you export the image a new JPG/TIFF/PSD or whatever is created with the changes incorporated. An elegant solution. The only thing I would really miss is batch processing. Many would not care.
It is worth saying that you only get as much as you pay for! A little over $A100 is small change in comparison with your camera, lenses, memory, etc.
$A400+ buys Lightroon 2 - still modest in relationship to the rest of your gear.

photog · 08-19-2009, 04:13 AM

I an posting an example of LR2's ability to handle highly saturated reds, oranges etc at high saturations without loss of gamut. I used the now vibrance setting instead of saturation. This feature does not over saturate flesh tones in portraits and is kind to warm tones in landscape etc.
Camera:K10D.

photog · 08-19-2009, 04:15 AM

I'll try again...

*ytterbium* · 08-19-2009, 12:49 PM

Neat field of flowers. Thanks for the input, but as i said LR is out of question. Something 30$ at max.
Otherwise free software is good enough. I think UFRAW will do.

Nanthiel · 08-19-2009, 02:21 PM

RawTherapee has specialised tools to preserve oversaturated colours. It also supports highlight preservation, which probably would help this case too. You might want to try.

Oh, it's free software too. (Available for Linux and Windows)

MJB DIGITAL · 08-19-2009, 02:34 PM

I wonder if new camera models will give us the option for +/- saturation per Red, Green, and Blue channels.

I would definitely have my red channel down a notch.

Friggin red.

photog · 08-19-2009, 06:00 PM

Hi Nanthiel I have had a brief look at RT 2.4 and it certainly sets a standard for free software. It clearly allows for considerable modification to the image processing.
The logic of its interface is not too dissimilar to Lightroom2. I assume it provides non-destructive processing of RAW / JPG / TIFF files? LR2 does most of the same things although the tools are diffferently calibrated and named.
I didn't find a way to turn cropping warnings off?
If I wasn't so deeply commited to LR etc I think, perhaps I could have saved some serious cash.
I may have missed it but I didn't find a screen for printing directly fron RT. This feature of LR has lifted my print quality considerably (or rather slashed the amount of ink and paper I used to get the exact print quality that I want.
Thanks for the information.

Nanthiel · 08-19-2009, 06:22 PM

Yeah RawTherapee isn't perfect, but it's getting there, I think. I just found out now that I prefer 'RawStudio', for my needs I can accomplish things a lot faster. And I think it has much truer Pentax colours.

And yes all editing in RT is non-destructive. But I think it doesn't have a Print option.

The cropping warnings get turned off with triangles at the top of the image (they have an exclamation mark in them).

Hope that helped,
— Nanthiel

*StevenVH* · 08-19-2009, 06:55 PM

Hello ytterbium, are you not using GIMP?
I've been using PCLinuxOS.nl version DPEV4 for about 6 months and it's been very good. It's developed by a forum member who goes by "newmikey".
RAW files are opened by a UFRAW GIMP plugin where much editing can be done and then loaded to the GIMP for final editing.
RawStudio and RawTherapee are also available, but I haven't found UFRAW/GIMP to be wanting at all. I tried batch processing with RawStudio, which is okay, but doesn't serve me.
AFAIK, the only 16-bit processing in Linux is with Cinepaint which is a fork of GIMP and is still in need of some work IMHO.

hth

Class A · 08-20-2009, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by photog

...any 8 bit program such as picasa will not be able to process without loss of data.

Are you sure about this?
I only had a brief encounter with Picasa and PEF files but it didn't look like 8 bit processing at all.

Next to Picasa I use RawTherapee and Gimp. It bugs me that Picasa has an undo stack, i.e., you cannot adjust the sharpening without undoing any white balance tuning if you did the latter after sharpening. Completely idiotic and unnecessary. A shame, because most of the time Picasa does the job and it is surprisingly difficult to achieve e.g., the effects of the tuning tool with full tone curve control.