New iMacs are pretty slick - Page 13

lithos · 10-30-2009, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Beswick

I forgot to answer one of you questions. If the power goes out, trapping a disc inside a slot loading drive, I will go do something else until the power comes back on. Chances are the other drive I would put it in will also be without power.

By the way, if you will do me the favor of not blaming me for the Enron debacle then I won't blame you for the extinction of the Tasmanian Devil. Does that sound fair?

When did I blame you for Enron? I said you lived there (in California) - I didn't say it was your fault.

Of course, I don't live in Tasmania. I'm not even on the same landmass. It's like saying it's you fault for the brown tree snakes in Hawaii.

flippedgazelle · 10-30-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Beswick

We sure are! I just recently paid a whole whopping $29 for a fully legit copy of Snow Leopard. Heck, I bought it at the Apple store! Now refresh my memory, how much was that full, as in non-upgrade copy of Windows 7? Is it the "Basic" version, the "advanced" version, the "deluxe" version, or the "ultimate" version? Is it the home or office version? Just how many different versions of Windows are there?

Since you brought up the OS, Since you are considering journalism, And since the best journalists know the history of what they are writing about:

OS X is the direct descendant of Rhapsody.
Rhapsody is the direct descendant of OPENSTEP.
OPENSTEP is the direct descendant of NeXTStep.

Now this is the important part, so please pay attention.

Way back in 1991 a man named Tim Berners-Lee wrote a program on a NeXT computer. The program was called WorldWideWeb, and in case you have not figured it out, it was the worlds first web browser.
EDIT: Keep in mind how we are communicating!

Apple continues to innovate, and Microsoft continues to steal ideas from apple. If Apple were to go out of business tomorrow (not going to happen, btw) how munch "innovation" do you think we would see out of Microsoft? I'm guessing that it would be roughly equal to the number of ideas they could steal from the Linux community. Personally, I'm willing to pay $29 to a company that has brought so much to the computing world.

Sure, there were mp3 players before the iPod, but who used them?
Sure, Intel invented USB, but who got people to use it? Do you remember the "fun" of serial ports? Tell me, why were there so many different pin configurations to serial ports? Does anybody know?

I don't ever need to hunt online for a printer driver, because the OS does it for me. Now I will say that the XP partition on my netbook tries to find drivers, but somehow it never gets the right ones. My OS X installations have never had a virus, spyware, adware, or any sort of malicious damage. Furthermore, I've never spent a single second installing anti-anything on them, nor have I ever had to reinstall the OS after six months "because it was getting slow". The only exception to this is the XP partition on my netbook, which spends more time bogged down updating crap than I do working with it. Hence, I installed OS X on the other partition.

It's not just on-paper specifications that matter. I think that a Pentax user in a Can-ikon world should be able to understand that.

And one more thing: as a man I'll never willfully buy anything from a company whose name literally means small and soft.

Since you have decided to "educate" people, maybe some more facts are in order.

You've neglected to mention that Nextstep was built from UNIX underpinnings.

"Apple continues to innovate". Yep. Stealing the idea for a GUI from Xerox. Innovative. No esata on the new iMac. Innovative. No user-replaceable batteries on some products. Innovative.

Why the paucity of Mac viruses? Because hackers don't care. Yet, if they did care, Mac OS X hacked under 30 minutes - News - Security - ZDNet Australia

Believe it or not, lots of people used mp3 players prior to the restrictive, DRM-laden iPod. Just like people drove cars before the Model T.

Sure, Intel invented USB, but who got people to use it? Do you remember the "fun" of serial ports? Tell me, why were there so many different pin configurations to serial ports? Does anybody know?

Actually, Intel was (and is) part of a consortium that invented USB. AFAIK, Microsoft got people to use it, since Apple was late to the party. Considering Apple's history of non-standard, proprietary interfaces, you picking on the (admittedly dreadful) serial port is simply... ludicrous.

Maybe the reason you never need to hunt for drivers for your Mac is because there's like 4 peripherals available.

Seriously, Apple is so closed on the hardware front that of course drivers are easy to obtain. There's also much less driver developemtn for Apple, hence there are far fewer updates available.

Pretty sad that a "Mac defender" can't simply extol the virtues of his own machine, but instead has to resort to childishly attacking another platform, and engaging in half-true rhetoric. Very politician-like.

And note, that I've been supporting Mac in this thread. Macs do a good job with their intended audiences.

PS. I believe Lithos's point regarding slot-loading vs. tray-loading drives is that when the power goes out, you can still eject the disc from the tray-loading drive, via the "escape hole"(!). Of course, everyone should have their computer attached to a battery back-up anyway, right?

rparmar · 10-30-2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Edvinas

Honestly, Vista wasn't that bad, it "failed" because users simply were unable to adjust to new GUI.

Vista failed because it offered no compelling reason to upgrade. It failed because there were many glitches in the initial releases. It failed for us audio pros since it introduced a whole new subsystem that was incompatible with what went before. It failed because hardware manufacturers had too much work to do to create drivers, so these took years to come out.

Originally Posted by Steve Beswick

OS X is the direct descendant of Rhapsody.
Rhapsody is the direct descendant of OPENSTEP.
OPENSTEP is the direct descendant of NeXTStep.

As someone who actually used NeXTStep let me say that it would still be considered advanced. The Mac OS and Windows are both nothing compared with it. This is largely due to the bundled visual OOP development system that kicked ass.

Unfortunately the computer itself used a slow as death optical drive.

flippedgazelle · 10-30-2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by rparmar

Vista failed because it offered no compelling reason to upgrade. It failed because there were many glitches in the initial releases. It failed for us audio pros since it introduced a whole new subsystem that was incompatible with what went before. It failed because hardware manufacturers had too much work to do to create drivers, so these took years to come out.

Actually, a large part of that problem was due to Miscrosoft's idiotic driver update "searcher" that supposedly attempted to locate updated drivers for you. It would report back, "no updates are available for this product" (or something like that) because it searched only MS's database. Yet you could often go the the mfr's website (HP, for example) and download the new driver.

No wonder so many people were frustrated with early Vista.

IMO, it's hard to say Vista "failed". It still become the standard OS for PC's and made MS bunches of $$. In my experience, it outperformed XP on well maintained, well-specified PC's. And for those of use who needed/chose to use a 64-bit flavor of Windows, Vista x64 blew away XP x64.

lithos · 10-30-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

PS. I believe Lithos's point regarding slot-loading vs. tray-loading drives is that when the power goes out, you can still eject the disc from the tray-loading drive, via the "escape hole"(!).

The technical term is "G-spot."

Of course, everyone should have their computer attached to a battery back-up anyway, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. In fact, I'm just checking it right- shit. Does anyone have a spare hamster?

No user-replaceable batteries on some products. Innovative.

Yes, the batteries are a bugger. But would you want the average iPodder to be handling what amounts to low-grade explosive?

Incidentally, in regards to hardware: remember how the PowerPC chip was so much better than that Intel crap Windows users were stuck with? And how Apple would never lower itself to using Intel? Remember that? Innovative.

Why the paucity of Mac viruses? Because hackers don't care. Yet, if they did care, Mac OS X hacked under 30 minutes - News - Security - ZDNet Australia

Right now, Apple's security consists entirely of hope and lack of market share. Saying Apples are secure because of the genius of their makers is like saying Earth doesn't get hit by comets because we've got such a well-designed and defended planet. Not true. It's because there's a GBFO gas giant - Jupiter - in the way that's a much bigger and more attractive (literally) target.

If Apple's market share increases - and they start getting used for something important, like databases for credit card companies - watch the malware roll in.

Originally Posted by Steve Beswick

Personally, I'm willing to pay $29 to a company that has brought so much to the computing world.

Megalomania and marketing are the two main contributions Apple made in about the last decade or so.

You could argue, however, that Microsoft released 3 new "versions" of Windows XP. Except they called 'em Service Packs. And they were free. They had the same effect. That was over a period of eight years.

In the seven years OSX has been around, there have updates every year. For thirty bucks a pop, let's say, so far, the OS has cost you $210. If it keeps on going, there's no limit to what it would cost you.

Of course, no one here's arguing that Windows is some sort of divine being, unlike the Apple cultists.

Apple continues to innovate, and Microsoft continues to steal ideas from apple. If Apple were to go out of business tomorrow (not going to happen, btw) how munch "innovation" do you think we would see out of Microsoft? I'm guessing that it would be roughly equal to the number of ideas they could steal from the Linux community.

Sure, there were mp3 players before the iPod, but who used them?

Compaq should've sued Apple for stealing the innovative idea of a HDD-based DAP. Yes, Compaq.

Though there's plenty of innovation where Apple stands alone. The slot-loading drive, as mentioned. The inaccessible case. The massed convergence (and, therefore, lack of redundancy) of several items. A computer whose ports (USB and otherwise) were only accessible if said computer was turned upside down. Short mouse cords...coupled with laptops that only had USB ports on the left. Laptops you can fry eggs on. Batteries that scare airlines. Notoriously uncomfortable, unergonomic and unresponsive mice that seem to be designed for rectal insertion (hmmm...)

Laptop keyboards...for desktops. Terrible misuse of desktop real estate.

But you're right, Microsoft wouldn't do much innovating. Unlike Apple, it's users are able to do it, and tend not to really on some magic corporate god to tell them what they want and then provide it.

flippedgazelle · 10-30-2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by lithos

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. In fact, I'm just checking it right- shit. Does anyone have a spare hamster?

Incidentally, in regards to hardware: remember how the PowerPC chip was so much better than that Intel crap Windows users were stuck with? And how Apple would never lower itself to using Intel? Remember that? Innovative.

Sorry, my spare hamster got thrown in the soup I'm currently making.

Yep, I certainly remember the supposed superiority of PowerPC.

rparmar · 10-30-2009, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

Actually, a large part of that problem was due to Miscrosoft's idiotic driver update "searcher" that supposedly attempted to locate updated drivers for you. It would report back, "no updates are available for this product" (or something like that) because it searched only MS's database. Yet you could often go the the mfr's website (HP, for example) and download the new driver.

Well, I am referring to cases where the hardware dudes did not make the drivers and so they truly did not exist. In any case the badly conceived driver search system was also there in XP. Which is why most installation instructions have to tell you to "say no to this dialogue" and "ignore the warning in that dialogue". Lame.

**Adam** · 10-30-2009, 08:40 PM

Check out system76.com.

I am having a machine built for under $2.5k with a Core i7 Extreme @3.2Ghz (I believe this is the "Nehalem" chip), 1TB of storage, 6GB of 1600Mhz ram, and a decent video card. I think that's an amazing value for those specs!

Not as powerful as server hardware, but obviously this is close to the limit for PCs and looks very attractive!

flippedgazelle · 10-30-2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Adam

Check out system76.com.

I am having a machine built for under $2.5k with a Core i7 Extreme @3.2Ghz (I believe this is the "Nehalem" chip), 1TB of storage, 6GB of 1600Mhz ram, and a decent video card. I think that's an amazing value for those specs!

Not as powerful as server hardware, but obviously this is close to the limit for PCs and looks very attractive!

Argh, no way in heck that the Core i7 965 is worth $1k more than 920, particularly when the 920 overclocks so readily!!!

6 GB RAM is also pretty middling for a 64-bit OS. You should be getting a motherboard that supports 6 memory slots, and populate is with 2GB X 6 = 12GB.

lithos · 10-31-2009, 12:29 AM

I'm inclined to agree. If there's one simple thing that helps the performance of photoshop, especially when dealing with large scans, it's RAM. Wish I had more, but unless I can find identical sticks to the ones I've already got (unlikely,) there's not much point.

*Andi Lo* · 10-31-2009, 12:37 AM

If only those video cards were better I would probably snap up one of these imacs... if I go an all-out microatx setup with the HP 24" IPS screen it would run me about the same as the 27" mac, only with a more powerful graphics card and 3" smaller screen.... I dont have enough wad to buy that though, and apple has the 10% restocking fee for refund (in case I dont like the OSX, haven't used it extensively before)

I can drop the IPS and just use my current lowly 22" Acer, and it would bring the cost WAY down and I'll still have a computer specced better than the 27" Mac, and I can finally actually use my K10D! (cant process the raw files fast enough... lack of processing power)

The 27" is very well specced for what it is... if only! that graphics card is better.

Decisions2

Edvinas · 10-31-2009, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

anyone thats says its not slick can kiss my soviet ass

Well, that's a known fact that homo sovieticus have poor aesthetics and ethics. No wonder that you have tried to insult everyone who disagree with you even before they did so.

Your PC is ugly to my eyes.

p0opstlnksal0t · 10-31-2009, 12:53 AM

i agree on the processor.... drop down to a 920 and save the 1000 bucks if you can... my 920 is OC'd to 4.2ghz on modified air cooling. I dont really think 12gb is necessary, but it couldnt hurt. i have 6gb and do some pretty memory intense stuff and have yet to use utilize more than 60% of my ram during encoding of HD video or image processing... I can run like 4-5 instances of convertxtodvd from a source 720p mkv file and still be totally able to run cadworx/autocad in the background while surfing like 10-15 websites. lol.... i love this thing for multitasking... just remember since your mem controller is on die going to 12 gb over 6gb will severly hinder your overclock... i havnt seen many rigs with this much ram make it very far past the 3ghz mark even with a good d0 stepping 920

*Steve Beswick* · 10-31-2009, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

...
You've neglected to mention that Nextstep was built from UNIX underpinnings.
...

Are you trying to say that OS X is not a Unix OS? Because if you are, you are dead wrong. Mac OS X Leopard receives Unix certification | MacNN

...
"Apple continues to innovate". Yep. Stealing the idea for a GUI from Xerox. Innovative. No esata on the new iMac. Innovative. No user-replaceable batteries on some products. Innovative.
...

I'd hardly call the way Apple acquired the GUI from Xerox stealing. It's more like accepting a gift. Regarding the rest of the paragraph, let's do something similar, but with a new car: "Only four tires. Innovative. Glass windshield. Innovative." Really? Can you not see the flaw in your argument? Also, there is a point to the non-repaceable battery. It's not a bad idea just because you don't like it.

...
Why the paucity of Mac viruses? Because hackers don't care. Yet, if they did care, Mac OS X hacked under 30 minutes - News - Security - ZDNet Australia
...

A quick quote from the three and a half year old article you linked to:
"Participants were given local client access to the target computer and invited to try their luck."

Please feel free to correct me on this one if you want, but I'm pretty sure that in May 2006 the current version of Windows was XP. Now tell me, if you gave the same caliber of hacker local client access to an XP box, exactly how long would it take for him to gain control? 2 minutes? less?

...
Believe it or not, lots of people used mp3 players prior to the restrictive, DRM-laden iPod. Just like people drove cars before the Model T.
...

Yes, and lots of people used computers in the 1970s, but there is a scale issue here. And the iPod itself has no DRM at all. Only some of the songs from the iTunes store do. I'm making a point about it being some of the songs, because Apple has push the record industry hard to eliminate DRM, and has been rather successful.

...
Actually, Intel was (and is) part of a consortium that invented USB. AFAIK, Microsoft got people to use it, since Apple was late to the party. Considering Apple's history of non-standard, proprietary interfaces, you picking on the (admittedly dreadful) serial port is simply... ludicrous.
...

Go find a printer that could actually be purchased in a store before May of 1998 that had a USB port built in. Give up yet? Thats because they did not exist. Now let's see, when did the first iMac come out?

...
Maybe the reason you never need to hunt for drivers for your Mac is because there's like 4 peripherals available. Seriously, Apple is so closed on the hardware front that of course drivers are easy to obtain. There's also much less driver developemtn for Apple, hence there are far fewer updates available.
...

HP, Lexmark, Epson, Canon, Brother, and Okidata all have Mac drivers for their printers. Sure, there are some accessories that don't have drivers. Most of the time it is because it would be redundant, like a wifi card.

...
Pretty sad that a "Mac defender" can't simply extol the virtues of his own machine, but instead has to resort to childishly attacking another platform, and engaging in half-true rhetoric. Very politician-like.

And note, that I've been supporting Mac in this thread. Macs do a good job with their intended audiences.
...

I think you might have missed some of the things I've written.

...
PS. I believe Lithos's point regarding slot-loading vs. tray-loading drives is that when the power goes out, you can still eject the disc from the tray-loading drive, via the "escape hole"(!). Of course, everyone should have their computer attached to a battery back-up anyway, right?

I guess I just don't see the benefit of having a CD or DVD without electricity. Maybe Lithos needs it for a signal mirror?

*Steve Beswick* · 10-31-2009, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Andi Lo

If only those video cards were better I would probably snap up one of these imacs... if I go an all-out microatx setup with the HP 24" IPS screen it would run me about the same as the 27" mac, only with a more powerful graphics card and 3" smaller screen.... I dont have enough wad to buy that though, and apple has the 10% restocking fee for refund (in case I dont like the OSX, haven't used it extensively before)

I can drop the IPS and just use my current lowly 22" Acer, and it would bring the cost WAY down and I'll still have a computer specced better than the 27" Mac, and I can finally actually use my K10D! (cant process the raw files fast enough... lack of processing power)

The 27" is very well specced for what it is... if only! that graphics card is better.

Decisions2

If you buy a Mac and decide that you don't like OS X you can always install Windows.