New iMacs are pretty slick - Page 15

*Steve Beswick* · 11-02-2009, 02:10 AM

"If you read my post again, you'll see that I'm saying that OSX is a Unix OS. I just found it interesting that when you gave a brief history of OSX, you neglected to mention Unix, instead choosing to stop with Next"

Sorry about the misunderstanding. My intention was to point out the invention of the web browser.

"I don't really think it's stealing, either. But the point is, many things in computing, as in life, are inevitable, and this includes aspects of an OS. Yet whenever MS does anything vaguely Apple-esque, the Macaholics scream "copycat!". Just childish. As far as batteries go, yes, nonreplaceable batteries are bad. If they weren't why aren't all Mac batteries nonreplaceable?"

There are many good reasons for making a battery built in. All current Mac laptops do have built in batteries. All you need to change them out once they are worn out is a screwdriver.

"Mmm, strawman again. We were talking about OSX, remember?"

Yes, the point is security is a relative thing.

"Rio & Creative labs both had popular MP3 players prior to Apple. Remember, the 1st iPod wasn't compatible with Windows, so it's popularity was limited."

Popularity is relative. Before the iPod took off 90% of people didn't even know what a mp3 player was.

"At one time, all iTunes downloads had DRM. And Apple has been a follower, not a leading, in the non-DRM shift. Apple responded to pressure from other online music stores."

There is a difference between convincing a small time indy label to go DRM free and convincing Capitol records to do the same. Again, it comes down to scale. And the iPod itself has never had DRM, only the songs purchased on the iTunes store.

"So you think Apple, with their (at the time) tiny market penetration, drove the USB revolution?"

Mac users purchase a disproportionately high # of accessories, and it very quickly became obvious that USB was the way forward for Apple.

"I can remember using a workgroup printer in 1997 that was USB but I don't remember if it was HP, Ricoh, IBM..."

So you can't remember what brand of printer it was, but you are sure it was 1997? Sure. I'll buy that.

"Suppose you are working on a project and have a CD in the drive. The power goes out. Uh-oh, I need to get the CD and go to another computer. Can't readily do that with a Mac, yet you can in most PC's. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal, since you should have your Mac/PC connected to a UPS anyway."

In the inconceivably unlikely event that the power goes out in only part of the office you are working in, you don't have a UPS, you are using a desktop and not a laptop, and the disc in question is the only copy of the data you need:
1. To quickly retrieve the disc in question you will need to take the Mac in question and a mouse to a functioning power outlet.
2. You should consider spending more on life insurance, as you at that point will have become the single most unlucky person in the world.

*Steve Beswick* · 11-02-2009, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by lithos

I find it ironic that Steve Beswick gives full points to Apple for just being the first to introduce USB ports - even though they never made 'em popular. But on the same token, Apple gets credit for popularising MP3 players...but in this case, being the first to come out with one is irrelevant. Bit of a double standard, eh?

Yep. Mac layout keyboards never took off with the Windows crowd. I guess that makes them unpopular. Who cares if 8% of the worlds desktop computers have them?

You know what other MP3 players don't have DRM on them? About all of them. My Samsung T10 is one example I can cite.

iPods don't have DRM either. See my last post.

And yes, the USB ports on the keyboards suck balls. Why? Everytime I've plugged in a USB stick into them, OSX informs me that I need to plug it into a "powered" port, even though there's more than enough voltage going through them to run the iSuppository (or in the case of the local at which I'm studying, a more sanely designed Razer mouse.) Score one for Mac's USB keyboard hub, eh?

Apple mice are durable, well thought out units. It's too bad that you have such a strong distaste for anything Apple. You might actually find you like them. I know, they are not as cool as the 3¢ ball mice that Dell and HP provide with their computers.

As far as the keyboard power problem you seem to be having is concerned, all I can say is to check for user error.

Tell me again, what's the purpose of removable, portable media? Here's a hint: I've given you two words in that question that are the answer. (And CDs do indeed make excellent signal mirrors - got the built in sight hole and everything.)

I'm sure they do make good signal mirrors. Do you really think that was the point?
For the rest of your answer, please check my last post.

*Steve Beswick* · 11-02-2009, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

I have to point out an error in your statement, "all laptops had trackballs (or no mice at all!) until Apple introduced Trackpads". Prior to trackpads, some laptops - most famously IBM Thinkpads - has "pointing sticks" set in the center of the keyboard.

Don't forget about the trackbar!

lithos · 11-02-2009, 07:18 AM

I think it's cute you think I use a Dell. Or an IBM. Or any other brand-name computer. Really.

As I've said before, I'm using Apples for film editing now, and they leave a lot to be desired. So don't pull the you-might-like-it argument, because it's not going to work.

But you're having trouble comprehending that you don't need to pay someone to put together a computer system, aren't you? Good lord, no wonder you're on a Mac. I know it's easier for Macheads to argue this - Dell sucks, Sony sucks, HP sucks (and they do, with customised OS installs and hardware) - because it's easier to think of everyone else as a polar opposite.

More importantly, Machead's think they're doing real damage by taking wild swings (like assuming all non-Mac users must be on Dells or HPs, etc.) at the other brands because, well, brand-names are all important for Apple users, and what's you're worth if it's not backed easily-recognisable expensive brands?

So by all means, knock HP, Dell, et al, all you want. I'm not defending them - or even Windows, but I do think it's the best of the bunch. Just don't think we happen to share the same blind allegiance the a logo that the Macheads do.

Oh, and again, to point out your ignora- I mean, for your information, no one's built ball mice for a long, long time. I know you're standard approach seems to be "Apple Invented/Popularised (you still haven't clarified which is more important, since you both praise and scorn both) Everything," it wasn't Apple who introduced the first mainstream optical mouse. It was Microsoft. I know. I owned one - Intellimouse Explorer. Sure, it broke after about five minutes, but it was first. Maybe you're confused since you refuse to believe that anyone would be ahead of Apple, but there you go. Maybe that's why you think that everyone else still packages ball mice with everything, as Apple didn't start using them until after most everyone else, and so Apple Law dictates that you can't think otherwise, or they, I dunno, they take away your iPod.

Apple mice are terrible. They are not ergonomic for me. For starters, I have adult-sized male hands. I also like to rest my hands on a mouse, instead of keeping them permanently arched so that my fingers can use the mouse buttons. I'd like to see some of the thoughts that went into their "well thought out" Mighty Mouse. Maybe it's a social experiment.

If you must know, I'm using a Logitech MX700 wireless optical mouse. There you go. Dig up some dirt on it. I'll wait. 'Bout the worst thing I can say about it is that the paint doesn't hold up well after five years, and it doesn't have a piece of used fruit on it anywhere. It did get the kid I bought it from fired, though.

But that's not the least of your worries, since you seem to be unable to comprehend how an electricity grid works, and what happens if it fails (ie, you can't take the Mac to another power point in a black out.)

Originally Posted by Steve Beswick

As far as the keyboard power problem you seem to be having is concerned, all I can say is to check for user error.

Yeah, every Mac has that problem.

flippedgazelle · 11-02-2009, 08:39 AM

I'm retracting this post.

No point in arguing, everyone has their point of view and interpretation of "facts".

In the end... we should all just try to be happy!

rparmar · 11-02-2009, 08:45 AM

Apple didn't invent the mouse, Douglas Engelbart did. Not to mention his innovative work at Stanford Research Institute on collaborative computing with a hypertext interface and multiple windows. Apple have never given him an ounce of credit. And I think no revenue.

But all mice are evil. So are touchpads at a fixed position that strains the hand. To avoid RSI get a cabled touchpad you can move anywhere you like... to use even while standing. Unfortunately you won't find these in stores (those days are gone). Search for "cirque".

Almost never does "popular" equate with "good", let alone "best".

P.S. Checked out the iMac 27" in store. The screen was far too reflective. Nice try though.

Gooshin · 11-02-2009, 09:36 AM

Friday's article..

Penny Arcade - In The Seventh House

comic..

*Steve Beswick* · 11-03-2009, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by lithos

I think it's cute you think I use a Dell. Or an IBM. Or any other brand-name computer. Really.

As I've said before, I'm using Apples for film editing now, and they leave a lot to be desired. So don't pull the you-might-like-it argument, because it's not going to work.

So Apple isn't a brand name?

But you're having trouble comprehending that you don't need to pay someone to put together a computer system, aren't you? Good lord, no wonder you're on a Mac. I know it's easier for Macheads to argue this - Dell sucks, Sony sucks, HP sucks (and they do, with customised OS installs and hardware) - because it's easier to think of everyone else as a polar opposite.

Go ahead and ask my father, who learned computer science back when the standard input device was punchcards, to assemble your next computer. I'll certainly enjoy the week long show!

The really sad thing is that you think that not only everybody can build their own computer, but that everybody should want to. The truth of the matter is that 90% of the computer buying public has absolutely no desire to ever see the inside of their computers. They just want to buy it, take it home, plug it in, and get to work. For most people the computer is nothing more than a simple tool.

Since you were too busy deciding what derogatory Mac user term you should use to notice, I don't use a Mac. I use a Lenovo S10 with OS X on it. My wife has a generic desktop that I put together. It also runs OS X. There are a few older Macs lying around. I guess that makes me a Machead, or a Mac geek, or any one of a dozen other pointless insults. I'd be willing to bet you have a couple of older Windows machines laying around. Tell me, does that make you a Windork?

More importantly, Machead's think they're doing real damage by taking wild swings (like assuming all non-Mac users must be on Dells or HPs, etc.) at the other brands because, well, brand-names are all important for Apple users, and what's you're worth if it's not backed easily-recognisable expensive brands?

It seems to me that you are the only one making assumptions.

So by all means, knock HP, Dell, et al, all you want. I'm not defending them - or even Windows, but I do think it's the best of the bunch. Just don't think we happen to share the same blind allegiance the a logo that the Macheads do.

I've never sworn allegiance to anything other than my wife and the country I call home. On the other hand this...

Right now, Apple's security consists entirely of hope and lack of market share. Saying Apples are secure because of the genius of their makers is like saying Earth doesn't get hit by comets because we've got such a well-designed and defended planet. Not true. It's because there's a GBFO gas giant - Jupiter - in the way that's a much bigger and more attractive (literally) target.

If Apple's market share increases - and they start getting used for something important, like databases for credit card companies - watch the malware roll in.

...Sounds to me exactly like what someone with blind allegiance would write. But you are right. Your allegiance is to the Windows logo, not the Apple logo.

Oh, and again, to point out your ignora- I mean, for your information, no one's built ball mice for a long, long time.

Brand new for 2009 Dell computers are at my school with mice that have - get this! - a ball. But keep going, the insults are really proving your case.

I know you're standard approach seems to be "Apple Invented/Popularised (you still haven't clarified which is more important, since you both praise and scorn both) Everything," it wasn't Apple who introduced the first mainstream optical mouse. It was Microsoft. I know. I owned one - Intellimouse Explorer. Sure, it broke after about five minutes, but it was first.

There we lightbulbs before Thomas Edison came along, but they only lasted five minutes too.

By the way, the optical mouse was invented in 1980, and it wasn't invented by Microsoft.

Maybe you're confused since you refuse to believe that anyone would be ahead of Apple, but there you go. Maybe that's why you think that everyone else still packages ball mice with everything, as Apple didn't start using them until after most everyone else, and so Apple Law dictates that you can't think otherwise, or they, I dunno, they take away your iPod.

WOW, this ENTIRE quotation is made from nothing but assumptions and insane, irrational speculation. Well, in all fairness, the part about when apple started using optical mice is just plain wrong.

A quote, admittedly from Wikipedia:
"The Apple Mouse (formerly Apple Pro Mouse) was originally introduced at the July 2000 Macworld Conference & Expo in New York City. Apple Computer was one of the first companies to ship an optical mouse as the standard input device."

Maybe you should actually check to see if your "facts" are actually true before you use them in a debate.

Apple mice are terrible. They are not ergonomic for me. For starters, I have adult-sized male hands. I also like to rest my hands on a mouse, instead of keeping them permanently arched so that my fingers can use the mouse buttons. I'd like to see some of the thoughts that went into their "well thought out" Mighty Mouse. Maybe it's a social experiment.

Again, Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean that it's a bad design. Maybe you have tiny hands? Maybe you have an extra thumb? I really don't know what your issue is with Apple mice, and at this point I really couldn't care less.

If you must know, I'm using a Logitech MX700 wireless optical mouse. There you go. Dig up some dirt on it. I'll wait. 'Bout the worst thing I can say about it is that the paint doesn't hold up well after five years, and it doesn't have a piece of used fruit on it anywhere.

Again, I really don't care what kind of mouse you use. If it matters to you, my wife also uses a Logitech wireless mouse. When she bought it two years ago it was one of the only ambidextrous wireless models in the store. IIRC it was $60 at the time.

The "used fruit" comment, was lame, weak, and pointless.

It did get the kid I bought it from fired, though.

Are you trying to prove how tough you are, or are you merely attempting to demonstrate a lack of character? Either way you had someone fired over something trivial. Bravo. Your parents must be so proud.

But that's not the least of your worries, since you seem to be unable to comprehend how an electricity grid works, and what happens if it fails (ie, you can't take the Mac to another power point in a black out.)

Are you STILL stuck on the slot loading drive "issue"? There are at least a half dozen solutions to your extremely unlikely situation:

1. Use a UPS
2. Buy a laptop instead of a desktop
3. Buy a Mac Pro, it has your holy tray loading drive.
4. Use an external drive.
5. Keep more than one copy of critical data (I cannot believe I even had to type this one).
6. Keep data that is likely to change during work on something more practical, like a thumb drive.

Now, in the unbelievably stupid event that you choose not to do any of the six preventative measures above, you can:

1. Take the computer to somewhere that has power.
2. Wait for the power to come back on, during which time you can;
a. Go chat with a neighbor or coworker.
b. Go take some pictures.
c. Go run some errands.
d. Go spend some quality time with some loved ones.
e. Spend a few minutes dealing with the realization that your life did not end when you couldn't get the disc from the horribly evil slot loading drive.
f. Get a pen and paper out and devise a proper backup strategy so that should this happen again you will have another copy you can use.
g. Work on improving your sense of humor.

h. Do i really need to keep going?

Yeah, every Mac has that problem.

Funny, none of the ones I've used ever do.

If you want to call an end to this, you need to do nothing but let it drop.

If you want to have a calm, rational debate regarding the merits of Macs VS. Windows, we can do that too.

If you wish to continue insulting me, that is your right, but I have better things to do than waste my time debating with someone who insists on acting like a child.

For what it's worth, I hope you have a wonderful day, and that your dreams will be filled with nothing but tray loading drives and flying Windows logos.

Gooshin · 11-06-2009, 07:34 AM

i tunes is ****ign gay

WHERE IS THE ****ING "put song on phone" button!!!

and why cant it ****ing read cyrillic... WINDOWS CAN< WHY CANT YOU???!!!!

*bang head

*Steve Beswick* · 11-06-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

i tunes is ****ign gay

WHERE IS THE ****ING "put song on phone" button!!!

and why cant it ****ing read cyrillic... WINDOWS CAN< WHY CANT YOU???!!!!

*bang head

The "Put song on phone" button says "sync".

As far as your cryllic problem is concerned: http://www.aatseel.org/macintosh_cyrillic

that last one took 5 seconds of googleing. For the first one I'd recommend the built in help system, or a thesaurus.

*Ash* · 11-06-2009, 01:34 PM

C'mon guys, this is hardly a revolutionary, life-altering issue of contention.

Macs are good in their place, they give IT-naive users less fuss, OSX and a little style - appeals to a certain market.

Be a little more IT savvy, and you can build an unbeatable PC for a similar cost, and have to use Windows.

Whichever way to get the job done. Horses for courses... until the horses die and we're left trying to flog them...