Is Lightroom messing with my colours?

gfonso · 11-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Disclaimer: I am a complete n00b when it comes to post-processing. I've begun reading books and web tutorials only recently, so this might be a kind of stupid question, please bear with me

I have noticed, when viewing my RAW files (DNG from K7) in Lightroom, that it is doing funny things with the colours in the pictures. They look very desaturated, and what's worse, with a weird hue (I don't know how to describe it). I know that by definition RAW images are not as punchy as a processed JPG, but the same images when viewed with Pentax Digital Camera Utility look much better.

I've tried the three profiles in the Camera Calibration section, and even though the Camera Standard looks a bit better than the Adobe Standard, it still doesn'tcome close to the Pentax software. I hope I am doing something wrong, and you can point me in the right direction, because I much prefer the quickness of use of Lightroom over the Pentax DCU, which is painfully complicated and unproductive (or I am too stupid to grasp its esoteric secrets).

As an example, I've exported directly to JPEG, without any retouching, so you can tell me what you think. If there's a better way to show you please ask.

BTW, versions are Pentax Digital Camera Utility 4 and Lightroom 2.5 with Camera Raw 5.5

Exports (clockwise starting upper left):
Pentax Digital Camera Utility 4
Lightroom with Camera Standard profile
Lightroom with Embedded profile
Lightroom with Adobe Standard profile

gfonso · 11-02-2009, 04:48 PM

My apologies, in Preview mode the attached pictures formed a square, so I the clockwise explanation was easy to follow, but upon posting they have moved a little

The Adobe Standard is now the lone picture in the second row, while the Embedded has been moved to the third row.

I would really appreciate any insight on this topic, it is destroying what little confidence I had in being able one day to do a good enough post-processing job to try and do justice to those awesome scenes that I get to witness from time to time

5teve · 11-02-2009, 05:45 PM

My pictures generally look very flat straight out of the camera, in lightroom. I use Mithrandirs presets (found in this forum section) and they work nicely for most pictures.

Just changing the camera calibration will not be doing much i guess, not compared to the pentax software which will be like the jpg output from the camera.

I am still very new to the software also but found developing the pictures using the presets mentioned above made things a little easier and by spending time playing with the different slides etc i am beginning to pick up what effects what, but for faster processing the presets work nicely 'most' of the time.

Download them follow the instructions and see how much more punch the pictures have!

Another tip too is to calibrate your screen (just on case you havent) i have just been through hell and back to try and get prints that matched the screen. I have a thread also on this section regarding calibration.

Good luck and keep with it, i hated lightroom to start with, but now im beggining to see what kind of power it has, its just taking me a while to get my head around the concept and methodology.

Thanks

Steve

*mbh* · 11-02-2009, 06:29 PM

I've been through this problem. I'm now shooting exclusively in RAW and using Lightroom.

Here's a few random thoughts:

- The Pentax software yielded nicer images with less effort than Lightroom at first. Then I got the hang of Lightroom and started to see the significant limitations of the Pentax software.

- Selecting "Camera Standard" in the Camera Calibration menu in the Develop mode seemed to yield better images. (I'm using a K20). Figuring this out was a Eureka moment.

- I was very used to punchy and colourful .jpgs straight out of the camera. Thats all I had looked at for years. Took a while before I got used to looking at something other than a .jpg

- Good point already made about calibrating your monitor. Every month or so I reset my monitor's settings. Colour + brightness settings can wander over time. I don't have calibration equipment (yet??)

- I often just play with Clarity, Vibrance and Saturation to pump up the colour.

Looks like you've got some great landscapes to shoot. I hope you find it worth the effort to find some software you like to help you do some interesting and creative work.

**Marc Sabatella** · 11-02-2009, 06:39 PM

It's normal to see variation between RAW processing programs, and the sort of variation you are seeing is exactly the sort of variation one should expect to see. Personally, I can't see any real difference between #1 and #2. But I think #4 looks better. It's all very subjective, though - don't get fooled into thinking that just because PPl created #1, that it must be "right" and the others "wrong". And in any case, if you don't like the color, just nudge a slider here or there to get it how you like it - that's the point.

mysticcowboy · 11-03-2009, 12:28 AM

I've seen a couple of "shoot outs" comparing different RAW conversion programs. It's interesting to see how each one handles files. Even different version numbers of the same program can output noticeably different images.

It really doesn't matter. The RAW image is literally a raw ingredient that needs to be cooked. At a minimum you need to duplicate the processing that the camera would have done to a jpeg. But a good chef always has a personal twist that makes the final product unique.

michael mckee
My Port Townsend – A City in Photographs

emalvick · 11-03-2009, 08:17 AM

I want to add that when you are using Pentax's software, out of the box, the program (theoretically) knows what your image would look like approximately.

Lightroom, on the other hand, is set up for all RAW formats, so out of the box, you are at a base point that is a little more general.

However, as others have pointed out, the power of Lightroom or any RAW processing program isn't in the starting point, it's how it finishes the file.

You should also take note that there isn't going to be any one magical setting that makes every photo turn out fantastic. The whole point of shooting RAW is that different photos might need different settings. Presets and profiles serve as wonderful starting points that will often get you very close to a finish. But, there will always be that image or two that just needs a bit more work or a completely different batch of edits than what you typically use.

The great thing about RAW programs starting at such a flat state, is that you will quickly learn and explore all the features that Raw program might have.

gfonso · 11-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Thank you all for the thoughtful insight. A few comments:

- I do calibrate my monitor (Spyder 3)
- I did download Mithrandir's presets last week but still haven't had a chance to try them (Thanks for the tip though)
- I am aware that the whole point of shooting RAW is to have the flexibility to play with the settings in post-processing, and I don't expect to see JPG-like output straight away. However, I was concerned when I saw the great difference between Lightroom and the Pentax software, and how awful the Adobe Standard profile looked compared to what I was trying to capture with my picture (which the Pentax sw seemed to "understand" a bit better)
- I am relieved to see that none of you have been too horrified by Lightroom Adobe Standard output

I know that I'll have to work to get a pleasing image out of my RAW file, but it seems that if I start from the Pentax sw output, I am somewhat closer to the intended outcome. However I find Lightroom much more responsive, faster and enjoyable, so I'll stick with it and try to find my way around this drawback...

One last thing. I too have read a few "shootouts" between different RAW developing programs and I'm left with the impression that, contrary to what has been suggested here, the software DOES matter, and quite significantly. Each one seems to have its strengths and weaknesses, and which program you use will have an impact in the final image. Could be that I misunderstood, of course.

Thanks again for your input, it's really helpful!

emalvick · 11-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by gfonso

....

One last thing. I too have read a few "shootouts" between different RAW developing programs and I'm left with the impression that, contrary to what has been suggested here, the software DOES matter, and quite significantly. Each one seems to have its strengths and weaknesses, and which program you use will have an impact in the final image. Could be that I misunderstood, of course.

Thanks again for your input, it's really helpful!

I don't think you've misunderstood, which is why you'll see that people will favor specific software. It is just that the importance is usually in the quality of the final result.

Again, Pentax software starts you closer to the end because it is tailored to Pentax cameras. It may in fact take few steps to get to the end because of that, and many people do find it sufficient (it's free after all).

The reason people often go to software like Lightroom, etc is that there are more features and flexibility. For instance, the one feature I love in Lightroom is the dust spot removal (healing mode) tool. I also like the ease in using presets such as Mithandir's and creating my own. I really don't pay much attention to the specific color profiles because I find that I can often make the tweaks I want with the standard color adjustments, and I honestly find the differences subtle enough that I really can't see one being better than another.

In all the software I've tested and used, I often come up with a baseline set of presets that I like to use to get close to a finish much like Pentax's software gives out of the box, and I'll often batch apply that preset to the photos I'm processing, so that I've simplified the software to a point where I only need a few steps as I might have with Pentax's software. My key complain with Pentax's software is that it is missing some nice features and lacks a lot of flexibility that I find with other programs. No RAW processing software has truly met all my desires as the perfect software would be some odd combination of Lightroom, Silkypix, and RawTherapee.

TOUGEFC · 11-13-2009, 12:42 AM

I shoot raw+ jpeg, then after the day or session i tranfer that entire's day folder over onto my laptop, and veiw all the jpegs. Then i pick all the best shots out then process them in lightroom to adjust mainly colours, and if some of the jpegs and too harsh or too dark i get them into lightroom and try to fix them with recovery and fill light, i can normally fix about 90% of bad photos but some are just to hard to fix.

*Canada_Rockies* · 11-14-2009, 01:56 PM

I have noticed, when viewing my RAW files (DNG from K7) in Lightroom, that it is doing funny things with the colours in the pictures. They look very desaturated, and what's worse, with a weird hue (I don't know how to describe it). I know that by definition RAW images are not as punchy as a processed JPG, but the same images when viewed with Pentax Digital Camera Utility look much better.

I will lay odds that your camera is not set to 0,0,0 in the saturation, sharpness and contrast options. My k10d images appear the same as the camera, for the simple reason that I have set my camera colours, etc. to 0 = no in camera processing.