Let's Talk Elements & RAW

[deludel]

Did you ever get so confused that you don't know what to ask to clear matters up? That's where I am on this Elements/RAW issue .. let me try to unscramble my question(s) for you ...

I have Elements 6/0 (had 5/0 previously) and just love the Organizer. It's a terrific tool for me. I recently enrolled in an 8-week online course for Elements, because I just didn't understand all those icons in Full Edit! The class is GREAT - I am in my 6th week and have learned tons. It's challenging, I dont find the Full Edit too user-friendly, considering this is supposed to be entry-level .. but I'm up for the challenge.

I saw this thread (K10D w/Adobe Raw 4.2 w/Photoshop Elements 6) from last year, but wanted to expand on the RAW-Elements Questions ....

I've recently shot some RAW files, and noticed they upload to Elements in PEF files. If I try to get them into Full Edit, it brings up a different type of Edit screen ... looks user-friendly, actually.

From what I understand from the attached thread, I need Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) to convert the files .. but ACR is embedded in Elements? So .. does that mean that "different looking full edit" IS ACR? I'm confused by this.

I guess what I need is some workflow understanding .. I've been simply putting my card in, uploading into Elements, and editing from there. It seems there is a more detailed workflow out there I should be aware of. I've heard of things like Bridge and Lightroom, but always assumed I did not need these because of Elements ... am I wrong?

To be clear - I'd like to be able to:
- ORGANIZE .. like the tagging feature
- EDIT .. want creative control when I need it
- CREATE .. am into slideshows and such
- RAW .. work with RAW files, although I have learning to do in this arena

So, is Elements 6.0 all I need?

[Bokeh]

I am so glad you asked this question. As a newbie to the whole PP thing I am trying to wade thru the murky adobe waters to figure out what does what. I just got a friend to give me a copy of adobe master suite CS3 and photoshop is included in that. I have only just begun to mess around with it.

I did download a demo of lightroom from adobe and I am really impressed with it. You should try their free trial or check out this helpfull demo vid somebody left in one of my threads.

Workshops-On-Demand

So, I know Im not really answering your question but I noticed you said your files were uploaded as PEF. Cant you change this in your camera under your raw options to DNG instead? I dont think there would be anyway for photoshop to get PEF files unless you give it PEF files.

Of course, I am a complete beginner and have no idea what Im talking about. Heres looking to someone who knows what they are talking about to answer this thread.

Bokeh

[deludel]

Bokeh - First dibs on that CS3 software when you are done with it!!

Thanks for validating my uncertainty Yep, I read tons of DNG vs PNG threads .. I think it all boils down to how much space you are willing to use.

Also read tons of threads about Lightroom v Elements ... thanks for the link on the free trial, I will try that out this week. From what I read .. seems that Lightroom is great for organization (vs the Organizer in Elements) but Elements is better for editing .. so a combo of both may be beneficial. HOW those two work together is still a mystery, I'll have to check it out during the free trial.

Now .. enter RAW processing into all this, and that's where the majority of my questions come in!!

[bluebeard]

(From another beginner...)
That would be ACR that opens when you attempt to edit a PEF file. You can tweak all the settings your camera would tweak when shooting JPG, then either open the file or convert to DNG.
My question related to this is, from ACR can PEF files only be directly converted to DNG? It seems that conversion to JPG has to wait until the file has been opened in the editor.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Bokeh

I am so glad you asked this question. As a newbie to the whole PP thing I am trying to wade thru the murky adobe waters to figure out what does what. I just got a friend to give me a copy of adobe master suite CS3 and photoshop is included in that. I have only just begun to mess around with it.

I did download a demo of lightroom from adobe and I am really impressed with it. You should try their free trial or check out this helpfull demo vid somebody left in one of my threads.

Workshops-On-Demand

So, I know Im not really answering your question but I noticed you said your files were uploaded as PEF. Cant you change this in your camera under your raw options to DNG instead? I dont think there would be anyway for photoshop to get PEF files unless you give it PEF files.

Of course, I am a complete beginner and have no idea what Im talking about. Heres looking to someone who knows what they are talking about to answer this thread.

Bokeh

Hey Bokeh, those online demo vids are just great. I'm sticking with Lightroom 2, I really have no need for Elements or CS3.

Dale

[Bokeh]

Yeah, the more I mess around with LR the more I love it. It just seems to do everything. In the demo vid for LR Beta she uses a brush in the basic panel I believe to go thru and paint parts of a photo with either exposure or saturation. Like when she changed the color of the clouds in the building pic. Can you do this with the current LR, because I cant seem to find it if you can.

[Dale]

I'm using LR beta 2 only. I got a license through to August via the forums here.

AFAIK LR2 offers spot/area editing, while LR1.4 does not. The automask feature is just superb in b2.

Dale

[reeftool]

I'm new to Photoshop also having just bought Elements. I use Picasa for most PP but its limited in what it can do. I found the Elements Village forum helpful, very similar to this forum in its format and dedicated to Photoshop Elements users. I'm still waiting for the computer I can talk to and tell it what I want it to do like Spock did on Star Trek.

[hwblanks]

Originally Posted by Dale

I'm using LR beta 2 only. I got a license through to August via the forums here.

AFAIK LR2 offers spot/area editing, while LR1.4 does not. The automask feature is just superb in b2.

Dale

On the subject of LR2, is the spot/area editing feature like the heal/clone feature in other programs? Basically, besides being able to do nondestructive raw file editing, all I really need a PP program to do is to make minor corrections in lighting, noise reduction, and minor cloning and healing (ie to get rid of dust spots in my pics).

I've been looking at quite a few programs and honestly, I'd like a program that can do it all instead of using several programs to get everything done. When it comes to PP, I believe in the KISS principle.

In addition to Lightroom 1.2, I've been messing around with a trial version of ACDSee Pro 2 and I like it pretty well and for the price, it's not a bad deal. I've also played with Elements and it does everything I need it to do, but it's not as sophisticated as LR in handling RAW files (nondestructive) and it has a lot of graphic-type stuff that I really don't need, but the price is good.

Maybe I just need to play with both LR and ACDSee Pro some more and see if I can come to a more definite conclusion. This is so confusing!

Heather

[Dale]

After watching the demo video linked above, I'd be thinking that LR 2 would be the way to go. If you have trouble downloading/viewing the video, pm me.

The image manipulation tools like spot healing/cloning, and other functions are quite well done. I'm impressed that you can paint exposure/contrast etc onto an area that will automask. (think a part shaded face under a hat. Paint more exposure with automask on, only the shaded portion of the face will be adjusted!)

Better yet, once done, you can drag a slider to adjust just how much of the end effect you want. (woops too much? drag slider back to 75% change)

The drawback is the price at $300. Unless of course you qualify for a edu discount. Better yet would be to make it a tax expense...

Cheers
Dale

[Dale]

Good grief, if you ever thought of using LR2 the author of the workshops on demand has a simply fantastic website with heaps of tips and tutorials on LR.

Not seen it mentioned here before (might need new glasses tho)

[hwblanks]

Does anybody know when LR2 will be released in it's final version?

Thanks!
Heather

[Cmanuel]

wow her website is awesome. Definitely bookmarking that. Thanks!

[Alan 2]

Originally Posted by deludel

Did you ever get so confused that you don't know what to ask to clear matters up? That's where I am on this Elements/RAW issue .. let me try to unscramble my question(s) for you ...

I have Elements 6/0 (had 5/0 previously) and just love the Organizer. It's a terrific tool for me. I recently enrolled in an 8-week online course for Elements, because I just didn't understand all those icons in Full Edit! The class is GREAT - I am in my 6th week and have learned tons. It's challenging, I dont find the Full Edit too user-friendly, considering this is supposed to be entry-level .. but I'm up for the challenge.

I saw this thread (K10D w/Adobe Raw 4.2 w/Photoshop Elements 6) from last year, but wanted to expand on the RAW-Elements Questions ....

I've recently shot some RAW files, and noticed they upload to Elements in PEF files. If I try to get them into Full Edit, it brings up a different type of Edit screen ... looks user-friendly, actually.

From what I understand from the attached thread, I need Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) to convert the files .. but ACR is embedded in Elements? So .. does that mean that "different looking full edit" IS ACR? I'm confused by this.

I guess what I need is some workflow understanding .. I've been simply putting my card in, uploading into Elements, and editing from there. It seems there is a more detailed workflow out there I should be aware of. I've heard of things like Bridge and Lightroom, but always assumed I did not need these because of Elements ... am I wrong?

To be clear - I'd like to be able to:
- ORGANIZE .. like the tagging feature
- EDIT .. want creative control when I need it
- CREATE .. am into slideshows and such
- RAW .. work with RAW files, although I have learning to do in this arena

So, is Elements 6.0 all I need?

I'll try and give you a handle on this.

When you shoot RAW elements will open the file in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw). You need this to convert the file into something elements can use as it can't edit PEF files directly. You may need to download the latest version of ACR if you're using a K200D or K20D. From there you can open the file in elements by using the open button at the bottom of ACR.

If you have a Mac then you will have bridge included in elements 6.0. On a PC you will have the organizer. Bridge is included in all versions of CS3. It's a type of organizer. I'm not familiar with the organizer in the PC version of elements 6.0 so I can't compare the two. Lightroom is basically a glorified organizer and an enhanced raw editor (compared to ACR in elements)

If your happy with the organizer in elements you really don't need Lightroom. It's made for High volume Pros who need to deal with many photos in a shoot. I use Aperture (Mac only) which has similarities to Lightroom. It's nice but with the amount I shoot I could get be with just using Bridge.

[Nesster]

I use the Elements raw converter, haven't really seen enough of a diff vs. the pentax silkypix one to choose one over the other. With the pentax software I like being able to preview the images (I have way too many photos for the elements organizer to be efficient)...