Need advice for 1st wedding

mhodge · 10-21-2009, 02:59 PM

Call me crazy, but I want to be a wedding photographer. I have done a few bridal portraits just for practice (friends and family) but for those I wasn't rushed and had great lighting etc. I only have a 18-55 kit lens and a DA* 300 lens (I also love nature photography). I am considering renting or possibly buying a lens and wondered what you all would recommend as indispensible - must have. I have been really wanting a DA* 50-135 just because... but now I am wondering if a FA 50 1.4 wouldn't be better being faster and all. Also, if I decide to rent would it be worth it to pay double and go with the DA* 55 1.4 And one more, what about the DA* 16-45. I had also wanted to own it. Do I really need something with a 1.4 aperature if I will probably be using flash - as least for fill anyway. Please help... Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

Gooshin · 10-21-2009, 03:13 PM

get hired on as an assistant first to get a feel for the procedures..

otherwise you might top that BBC article..

Mike Cash · 10-21-2009, 03:20 PM

Imagine the following:

"I've decided I want to rebuild my car's transmission. I've changed a flat tire a couple of times. Which set of socket wrenches should I buy?"

It isn't a matter of tools.

wiseghost · 10-21-2009, 03:25 PM

I think that short fast zoom (e.g. 16-50) is more suitable for this. But it depends on your shooting style. Anyway, expirience will be the best adviser.
p.s. I'm not a wedding photographer - just shoot several times for my friends.

mhodge · 10-21-2009, 04:05 PM

Also, let me make clear. I realize that I am inexperienced and I am not charging anything for my doing this wedding. This is a couple who can't afford to get a photographer and was going to have the brides sister take some snapshots. I offered to help them out as well as gain some experience. I feel like I will be better than nothing for them because I have been taking photo's since the K-1000 film days, I have taken every class that is in my general area and have studied alot on my own. I realize that it takes more than equipment. I didn't mean to imply that at all. Also in our very small town, it is virtually impossible to get on as an assistant because they all fear competition. I don't know any other way to get my foot in the door except to jump out there and do these weddings for people who can't afford an actual experienced photographer. That is why I am looking for help from you all. Thanks again...

arbib · 10-21-2009, 04:18 PM

Many moons ago I shot 3-4 weddings a month. I used two lenses...(35mm film btw), 21-35 f/2.8 Tokina ATX, and a 35-105 f/3.5-4.5 EF (the better one). I also had an EX350 TTL flash..Not sure on "model" part, but it was the top flash for the EOS line when the EOS 600 was popular). I did "traditional style" weddings (read: 90% posed, 20% candid).
If you get away with this old school style wedding photography, it is not hard to get a grip on it. *BUT*, you are still better off working as a second shooter for a couple of hundred bucks a wedding. That way, you can observe how your boss shoots the main images, and you can ask plenty of questions (after the shoot), on why and how he did certain shoots.
I was an second shooter for about 5 or weddings before he gave jobs that I was good enough for as I learned. (read: the clients that did not a lot of $$ to spend) *BUT*, I was no slouch either..I knew my equipment backwards in the dark!. But Film cameras did not have controls on every side and the front either. I know how to control the flash for mixed lighting (window and flash), and how much FEC to apply within seconds of looking at a potential image I wanted.

As far gear....as a second shooter, you will use the photographer gear, not yours AFAIK. But, if are to use your gear...You should have at least *one* pro quality lens in the 16-70 range for *one* lens that used 90% of the time. A *Pro* quality kit lens range...like a Tamron SP or Sigma EX 17-50 f/2.8, or the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and good short tele-zoom f/4-5.6 that is a mid level IQ build at least...the 17-50 or the 28-75 f/2.8 will be for 90% of the images anyway..That is why it needs to be the better IQ lens.

I never had a 2nd body, but I was dumb! if you are serious, get a second body!

Get a good book on wedding photography..one that explains what shots are most have images....As an assistant, you will see what are the most have images as you help with more weddings and ask lots of questions.

Edit:
Above was posted After OP posted post above this...

Now, understanding your job opportunity,
I would just do a traditional wedding. OK.......here I go:

split the wedding in groups of like images
1) Bride Getting ready with Mom and brides maids

2) Ceremony
2a) B/G leaving as Man/Wife

3) Formals (B/G come back in, and BOTH family's stay for Formals, and the rest go to the reception)

4) Reception
4a Cake cutting
4b Garter belt toss, Flower toss
4c Toast -- 2 images at least..(Best Man giving a toast/roast to the couple. and B/G drinking toast)
4d First dance series ---- Bride/Groom, Bride/Dad, Groom/Mom, Bride/NEW Father-In-Law, Groom/NEW Mother-In-Law.
4e Bride dancing with other friends, Groom dancing with other friends...
4f Any other planed event images
4g Candids Candids Candids Candids

It is a guide....Wedding move FAST....Be ready to switch gears and adj your gear for an image opportunity

Good Luck...Have fun, Don't allow friends to distract you, stay focused and think ahead of the next image opportunity while at another image
opportunity. (Multi-Task Thinking)

**Damn Brit** · 10-21-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by mhodge

I offered to help them out as well as gain some experience. I feel like I will be better than nothing for them because I have been taking photo's since the K-1000 film days, I have taken every class that is in my general area and have studied alot on my own.

One the one hand, you are offering to help them out, on the other you are using them as guinea pigs. What happens if you don't deliver? I'm sure you will and I was just referring to worst case scenario. There's a lot of truth in the saying "No good deed goes unpunished". Gratitude can swiftly change to rage directed at you for 'spoiling their day', emotions run high where weddings are concerned.

Reduce the risk as much as possible for you and the couple. Take spare cards and spare (fully charged batteries), where you would normally take one or two shots, take five or ten. Be aware of where the light is, part of being a wedding photographer is getting the people in the right place for a decent shot, you don't want blown highlights everywhere, especially where wedding dresses are concerned.
I'm sure there will be other guests with Point and Shoots, network with them and pool resources to ensure that the happy couple get a set of decent shots all on one disc or in one album (whatever format you are going to use).

mhodge · 10-22-2009, 09:15 AM

Thanks so much for all of the advice. I have bought two books and am devouring them. I will definitely look for the recommended lenses. I do have two camera bodies already K10 and K20 but only one 540 flash. I may consider renting a second flash as well. I am definitely concerned about using them as guinea pigs and have expressed that concern to the couple. They assure me that they weren't gonna be able to hire a professional anyway and that they will still have family and friends take snapshots. I have a few weeks so I plan to practice, practice, practice. Even on location. I may have to take my daughter out for a mother daughter evening and drop by for some test shots. She's about the same age and size of the bride, without the white dress. (I'll keep that in mind). Thanks again so much for all of your help, warnings and encouragement.

*Wheatfield* · 10-22-2009, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by mhodge

Thanks so much for all of the advice. I have bought two books and am devouring them. I will definitely look for the recommended lenses. I do have two camera bodies already K10 and K20 but only one 540 flash. I may consider renting a second flash as well. I am definitely concerned about using them as guinea pigs and have expressed that concern to the couple. They assure me that they weren't gonna be able to hire a professional anyway and that they will still have family and friends take snapshots. I have a few weeks so I plan to practice, practice, practice. Even on location. I may have to take my daughter out for a mother daughter evening and drop by for some test shots. She's about the same age and size of the bride, without the white dress. (I'll keep that in mind). Thanks again so much for all of your help, warnings and encouragement.

If all you have is a shoe mount flash, you haven't equipped yourself properly.
You need to get the flash off the camera, either with one of those Rube Goldberg devices such as a Stroboframe, or better still, a proper hammerhead style flash.

kunik · 10-24-2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wheatfield

If all you have is a shoe mount flash, you haven't equipped yourself properly.
You need to get the flash off the camera, either with one of those Rube Goldberg devices such as a Stroboframe, or better still, a proper hammerhead style flash.

Weddings are tough to get into if you don"t have ALL the gear. You don"t need it all for every job but you need to have available in the appropriate circumstance. Getting the flash off the camera is not always required but when it is required you need to recognize the situation an have the appropriate equipment available.

So not only do you need ALL the gear but you need to be VERY familiar with it all. I had the K-7 for two months before I took it to my first wedding because I was not comfortable with it. Now after a lot of experience I have decided I don"t like shooting the 50-135 on the K-7 so I keep that lens on the K20D.

My gear selection for a wedding usually includes DA*16-50, DA*50-135, DA*200mm, FA43mm Ltd, FGZ 360 and FGZ 540.

The 16-50 probably sees the most use. I like to shoot the K-7, 43mm, FGZ360 combination (hotshoe mounted) because it is so compact as a second body.

Untill you have the experience to make these sorts of decisions you just have to go on instinct and hope you are right. It sounds like you have been shooting for a long time and you are taking this assignment very seriously so I'm sure you will make wise decisions.

The reason I thought to reply to Wheatfield here with his comment is because I attended a wedding as a guest last weekend and was able to witness other wedding photogs in action for the first time in a long time. The were shooting 5DmkII's (3 of them between 2 shooters) with 85L, 35L, 50L. They shot the whole ceremony without flash and the evening/indoor stuff the hotshoe mounted flashes. From what I have seen of their work they are excellent wedding photogs. I would probably used a flash bracket but they did not and it wasn't because they could not afford one or because they did not know how to use one - but because they made a decision not to use one based on their significant experience which is fair enough.

So the moral of the story is know you gear and understand ALL the shooting environments in which you may find yourself.

Ben_Edict · 10-24-2009, 01:09 PM

I would for once emphasize the need for backup gear. On the very first wedding I ever shot, my camera body (a Pentax Super A/Super Program) broke. It just stopped working. My embarassement cannot be described properly... Luckily my office was just around the corner, so I could fetch another two bodies in short time. (Since that day, no body broke during a wedding again...)

The lesson learned was, not to take the responsibility as a wedding photog too lightly. It is THE day of their lifes for the couple.

Nowadays I use two bodies, one alsmost always with a 16-50/2.8 (if working) or my backup(sic!) 18-50/2.8 and the other body either with an extreme wide angle (10-20) or a 70-200/2.8. I try not to use primes, as I find them too slow to use (due to lens changing) and the last pixel of IQ is not decisive for a wedding.

This can be different with the formal shots, because I have more control how I arrange the shoot.

For flash: I basically always have a lot of flash guns with me. I prefer Metz flashes, but this a personal preference. So I take a Metz 45 or a Metz 50 hammerhead flash (or both), but also my two MZ54 hot shoe flashes. Interestingly, though in general I would agree with Wheatfield, during the last wedding, I used only the hotshoe flashes. This was possible, as in almost all shots, the background wall was far off, so the the "strange" shadows produced by hotshoe flashes in portrait orientation are simply not inside the frame. That made life much easier. Also, when using fill flash, the shadows shouldn't be apparent anyway.

I had at least three or four battery sets for each flash as spares, though I brought Quantum packs along. Outside for the bride and groom portaits I used one hot shoe flash combined with an MZ50 as a sunlight substitute (it was a really dull day) in slave mode. I find this wroks very well and gives me much more control, than real sun light...

What I find important is, that it is made clear to the whole wedding party, that I am the photog. This keeps people out of my way, for the many must-have shots during the wedding party. And it also reduces the disturbance during the formal ceremony, as all the point-and-shoot users would not be allowed to take images.

Ben

*Ash* · 10-24-2009, 02:44 PM

Few people would advise anything less than the gear required to make the most of wedding photography. So it may sound like overkill on your part to get a Pentax DA* 16-50 or Tamron 28-75 and a fast telephoto prime or 70-200/2.8 of some kind with flashes, diffusers and all the backup gear, but doing weddings regularly simply demands this.

If you're keen on doing it as a career, then you'll be investing in the best quality gear that performs well in low-light conditions right from the start. If this will be your one and only wedding, and you're not being paid for it, that's another story...

Rondec · 10-24-2009, 06:59 PM

I guess I would echo some of the sentiments above. Get a list of all the shots that are necessary and prepare hard ahead of time. I would look to zooms rather than primes. The 50-135 is excellent and will go far to taking care of most of your ceremony needs. As mentioned above, it really helps to get your flash off the camera, but flash work takes a lot of practice.

*straightshooter* · 10-24-2009, 11:11 PM

I'm going away from equipment, technique, etc. and give you something else to concentrate on. When you are doing the photos of the Bride, Groom and Family after the service, you have to be large and in charge. Ask family and friends not to shoot until you have finished to keep that damn blinking red eye reducer on Cousin Betty's P&S from flashing into your shot. But allow them time to shoot after you finish each pose. Second try to enlist a member of the family (usually the most sober and seemingly most reliable) to keep the family members corralled during the family shots. That way you don't have to wait until Aunt Selma gets back over from the reception sipping her fifth martini. Also when the Bride and Groom prepare to leave, look at the area they will be traversing and estimate the approximate KILL ZONE for the rice or bird seed or whatever the guests will be throwing because some of them can fling this stuff at a velocity approaching that of a 12 ga. shotgun. Always add 3-5 feet to what you consider safely out of the line of fire. Finally, I never hear anyone mention this but talk to the Bride and Groom before the wedding and remind them to look up at you when they are walking back up the aisle. Many couples will watch their feet just to make sure they don't trip so remind them to look at you.

These are a few of the things I learned just before I learned that I hated doing weddings and they were taking all the fun and joy out of photography for me.

CW

arbib · 10-25-2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by straightshooter

I'm going away from equipment, technique, etc. and give you something else to concentrate on. When you are doing the photos of the Bride, Groom and Family after the service, you have to be large and in charge. Ask family and friends not to shoot until you have finished to keep that damn blinking red eye reducer on Cousin Betty's P&S from flashing into your shot. But allow them time to shoot after you finish each pose. Second try to enlist a member of the family (usually the most sober and seemingly most reliable) to keep the family members corralled during the family shots. That way you don't have to wait until Aunt Selma gets back over from the reception sipping her fifth martini. Also when the Bride and Groom prepare to leave, look at the area they will be traversing and estimate the approximate KILL ZONE for the rice or bird seed or whatever the guests will be throwing because some of them can fling this stuff at a velocity approaching that of a 12 ga. shotgun. Always add 3-5 feet to what you consider safely out of the line of fire. Finally, I never hear anyone mention this but talk to the Bride and Groom before the wedding and remind them to look up at you when they are walking back up the aisle. Many couples will watch their feet just to make sure they don't trip so remind them to look at you.

These are a few of the things I learned just before I learned that I hated doing weddings and they were taking all the fun and joy out of photography for me.

CW

Yes, very good advice indeed. Having a reliable person to help organize can save a day, with everyone so exited about the Wedding, and forgetting about being in photos. At the Formals, it is the Photographer that controls the shoot.