K-7 raffle?? - Page 3

*mtroute* · 08-26-2009, 03:20 PM

Raffles for non-charity organizations I think are generally illegal.

Here is some information I found

What are the raffle laws of each state? | rafflefaq.com

*bogiesbad* · 08-26-2009, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

More seriously but slightly OT, I wonder if there's any mileage in forming a Coop/Club and using our buying power to get group rates on equipment and other stuff.

I believe a certain OC forum did a group buy of the K-7. What are the chances of getting Pentax to discount items (not just the K-7 but lenses, flashes etc.) bought by this forum in lots. Say a group buy of the 50-135 for instance. I am more interested in good glass than a new body at this time.

*daacon* · 08-27-2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by bogiesbad

I believe a certain OC forum did a group buy of the K-7. What are the chances of getting Pentax to discount items (not just the K-7 but lenses, flashes etc.) bought by this forum in lots. Say a group buy of the 50-135 for instance. I am more interested in good glass than a new body at this time.

I think we are talking about two different things here - your idea is a good one but it would require co-coordinating the members in what they want then taking that list to a vendor (or Pentax themselves) and begin the batering. You would not really have to collect any funds as long as everyone who said they would purchase actually does and goes to that vendor. The vendor would also have to ship internationally.

The idea here is as suggested a general slow 'savings' account where over the course of several months one has put enough money away from a new K7 (although in theory it could be used for whatever). Since it's a group effort one might get their new equipment after one month , while still having to contribute for the length of whatever 'term' is decided on.

I have no idea on legalities on the latter. I would assume it violates no gaming or lottery laws as no one really profits from it. Where it can run into issues is if someone stops contributing or whoever is collecting the money takes it.

One way around any legalities / trust issues would be for each of us to hold our own money. When the 'draw' is made everyone sends their money to that individual and they purchase whatever it is they want actually. If we get a deal with a vendor or Pentax for specifically a K7 then we might want to ensure whomever is participating wil be obliged to buy that item specifically and from that particular vendor.

As for what's in it for Adam and the forum those details would need to be worked out. Pehaps a commitement from every particiapting member to 'donate' x amount of dollars (a one time pledge) - All we would need here is one person responsible for the 'random winner' draw.

Anyway just my endless rambling....

*Leaf Fan* · 08-27-2009, 06:52 AM

Yeah, that makes sense.

In essence, what we'd be doing is lending money to the first winner, then to the second winner, etc. until everybody who participated got one. No profits, no interest, no raffle, just a random name every month for who gets it that month.

A deal with a vendor (or Pentax themselves) would make it more beneficial than everybody just going out and getting their own.

Only issue I could see is the steadily declining price of the K7, which means that the first one purchased (for the first month's winner) would be more expensive than the last one purchased, so a deal on the price over the next 12-18-24-etc. months would have to be arranged before it all began.

*daacon* · 08-27-2009, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Leaf Fan

Yeah, that makes sense.

In essence, what we'd be doing is lending money to the first winner, then to the second winner, etc. until everybody who participated got one. No profits, no interest, no raffle, just a random name every month for who gets it that month.

A deal with a vendor (or Pentax themselves) would make it more beneficial than everybody just going out and getting their own.

Only issue I could see is the steadily declining price of the K7, which means that the first one purchased (for the first month's winner) would be more expensive than the last one purchased, so a deal on the price over the next 12-18-24-etc. months would have to be arranged before it all began.

That's a good point - the shorter the cycle the better it is , also in 8 months time there will be used ones avalable in the market place and Ebay .....

If we don't get any deal with a vendor then I say c'est la vie, meaning

I win first month I get 1.2k USD. I take that and spend it on what I want from whomever I want. If that means a K7 for 1500 Cdn at a local shop so be it ( I may even have to kick in a few extra doillars) . If Leaf_Fan wins the last month he gets he K7 for $900 Cdn and has $300 left over - I am ok with that (as I had the K7 for months before), if you are not craving the new K7 now, it can be an advantage to win in the later months. Everyone would have to be comfortable with this. Heck with no vendor deal as Leaf_Fan said it's a pure lending money game and the winner can spend it on whatever the heck they want.

If a deal with a Vendor is made then it's not so much a fixed price I would go for as a fixed percentage off. That way the decling prices don't come into effect for the 'savings'.

Now who is the best person to negotiate with vendors ? What are the next steps ?

More endless rambling....

*séamuis* · 08-27-2009, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by daacon

That's a good point - the shorter the cycle the better it is , also in 8 months time there will be used ones avalable in the market place and Ebay .....

If we don't get any deal with a vendor then I say c'est la vie, meaning

I win first month I get 1.2k USD. I take that and spend it on what I want from whomever I want. If that means a K7 for 1500 Cdn at a local shop so be it ( I may even have to kick in a few extra doillars) . If Leaf_Fan wins the last month he gets he K7 for $900 Cdn and has $300 left over - I am ok with that (as I had the K7 for months before), if you are not craving the new K7 now, it can be an advantage to win in the later months. Everyone would have to be comfortable with this. Heck with no vendor deal as Leaf_Fan said it's a pure lending money game and the winner can spend it on whatever the heck they want.

If a deal with a Vendor is made then it's not so much a fixed price I would go for as a fixed percentage off. That way the decling prices don't come into effect for the 'savings'.

Now who is the best person to negotiate with vendors ? What are the next steps ?

More endless rambling....

it all sounds good. but the clenching point is how many people participate? do we allow everyone? just a certain numbers of members? just those who can afford a certain monthly amount? how will we know we can trust everyone to do their part financially? the more people involved the less each person pays in total correct?

id really like it to work, but there seems to be a lot of things that can very quickly derail the whole thing.

*daacon* · 08-27-2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by séamuis

it all sounds good. but the clenching point is how many people participate? do we allow everyone? just a certain numbers of members? just those who can afford a certain monthly amount? how will we know we can trust everyone to do their part financially? the more people involved the less each person pays in total correct?

id really like it to work, but there seems to be a lot of things that can very quickly derail the whole thing.

Yep - I would suggest pools - using a $100/mo as the 'donation' amount that gives a 12 month cycle for $1200 savings. You could even have various pools some at $75/mo some at $50.00 etc but I would suggest no more than 12 to a pool that way it is always a 12 month cycle. @$50/mo for 12 months it may not be enough to buy a K7 but it's certainly soemthing you saved you could put towards it.

As to how to prevent people from jamming out well that unfortunatley is the inherent risk of such an adventure. There is no way to prevent that at all. Some people circumstances may change (lay off , unexepected exepenses , etc) and have to leave for legitimate reasons.

I would suggest one of the 'rules' is there are no refunds so if you contributed for 6 months and have to bow out - you are out 6 months contributions. That particular pool could decide to let another member in (would be a bonus for that one) or just conitnue on.

I also like the idea and given the relatively small risks would be willing to participate and take my chances. But not everyone would be comfortable with that and that is prefectly allright.

Everyone getting involved should realize there are no guarentee's

And somebody of the 12 people will be last

*séamuis* · 08-27-2009, 08:46 AM

well if your in, I think I will also jump on board. that sounds like a plan.

*chalion* · 08-27-2009, 10:14 AM

This sounds very interesting...........and as stated, it could be very scary. Sounds like time to start a christmas fund - for december 2010.

Parallax · 08-27-2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by daacon

Yep - I would suggest pools - using a $100/mo as the 'donation' amount that gives a 12 month cycle for $1200 savings. ......................

Just out of curiosity; how is this different from putting $100.00 per month in the bank for 12 months?

*daacon* · 08-27-2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Parallax

Just out of curiosity; how is this different from putting $100.00 per month in the bank for 12 months?

The short answer is nothing.

When I send you a $100 cause your name was drawn - odds are I can't get it back.

a) it's a different kind of fun adventerous way to do it so you may actually do it
b) after a few months (like 6) you aren't tempted to take the $600.00 out and spend it or stop 'contributing' to the fund.

Bottom line if you win early enough it's like an interest free loan - if you are the last to win it makes absolutley no difference than had you done it yourself.

*EsBee* · 08-27-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by skinja

...Maybe there is a lawyer in the group...

Oh no!

Parallax · 08-27-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by daacon

The short answer is nothing.

When I send you a $100 cause your name was drawn - odds are I can't get it back. .......................

OK, I just wondered if I had missed something.

Parallax · 08-27-2009, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by EsBee

Oh no!
in response to:
Originally Posted by skinja

.....Maybe there is a lawyer in the group.....

Oh, c'mon now. Don't be too hard on lawyers. It's only 99% of them that give the other 1% a bad name.

*Leaf Fan* · 08-27-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Parallax

Just out of curiosity; how is this different from putting $100.00 per month in the bank for 12 months?

Because you could get a $1200 camera after only contributing $100, then you pay for it interest free for the next 11 months. Obviously, accepting that you might pay into it for 11 months before getting your camera.