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05-09-2010, 08:14 PM   #16
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Oh my! A caddisfly. :bigthumbsup:

QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
I had a Hartblei 120/2,8 T&S super-rotator. Heavy and big, rotator ring somehow difficult to use due the protruding flash beak of the K20D, but very very sharp. I sued it for close up, together with Nikon close up diopters. Diaphragm is manual, so you have to phisically close it before shooting, no need of green button, you can use both M or Av.

This is from that set up:



05-16-2010, 07:20 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Uh, if this is for a professional shoot, then why not just *rent* a 5D2 and the 24 or 17mm T/S? They are among the most popular Canon rental lenses (along with fisheyes) since not many can justify their expense "to see what they're like."
The work I'm doing will be ongoing, so I'd like to find a good sustainable solution. It looks like Russian Cameras, Lenses and other optics has the Arax lsited for Sony and Pentax, I'm going to email them to confirm stock. 35mm isn't as wide as I'd like, but for the price I'll take one of these and keep my pentax body instead of messing around with a Canon system...
11-10-2012, 06:11 AM   #18
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Anyone try a TS adapter? How are they?
11-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #19
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Samyang's tilt/shift lens is supposed to be out soon. What is the time frame?

11-10-2012, 08:04 AM   #20
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I've thought about posting on this a couple of time, so here are some of my observations. As everyone has lamented here already, tilt and wide angle on a ASP-c sensor really is an oxymoron, for the reasons described. I have the K 28 Shift, and with the crop factor its not as wide as desired. However, you are looking for primary a tilt. That is even worse, since you need to introduce the tilt mechanism (along with sufficient distance to accommodate the tilting) between the body and lens (making it an extension tube), essentially elongating the registration distance. One additional consideration is that on the rear of the shift lens, the optics are larger and do project a larger image circle. This is somewhat particular to the shift due to the distance introduced by the shift offset. However, with tilting I believe you could still use somewhat of a larger image circle so that you would not be as susceptible to the boarder/edge performance of the lenses.

Re-purposing medium format glass, helps in two areas; 1) a larger registration distance to work with in terms of introducing the tilt (and or shift) mechanism in line; and 2) a larger image circle, thereby letting you use more of the center of the lens, and being able to tilt which out running into the edge conditions; 3) MF lenses are pretty high quality. The downside to this is that with the larger sensor, the wider angles were not needed - thus 35mm is about the widest they go (although Pentax is now offering a 25mm for $5K). So, there really is no supply of wide glass available to put on a tilt mechanism.

The bottom line is that especially for tilt applications you are somewhat stuck in the 35mm range of focal lengths. To really go wider. Nikon has the 24mm for $2200 while Canon has both a 17mm and 24mm, each in the ~$2K range. Even if you went to MF, the available 35mm glass would only provide a 24mm FoV on the 135 format, at additional cost.

If you are a manufacturer and want to do a ASP-c T/S lens, in addition to the tilt/shift mechanics, you really need to design an ultra wide angle set of optics, so that when its put on the body with the larger registration distance, you wind up with just a wide angle glass (and don't forget about the potential need for a wider image circle). Plus, since you need the mechanics for tilt, shifting is essentially free. So for either a FF or ASP-c sensor, you wind up redesigning everything.

Also, here is an interesting read if you have not already run across it...
11-10-2012, 12:07 PM   #21
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interested_observer : I didn't know a TS was not that good for a crop cam. I thought it worked on any format. Kinda busts the bubble. The 645D is what is needed then?Or if Pentax ever comes out with a FF.
11-10-2012, 01:06 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote

The bottom line is that especially for tilt applications you are somewhat stuck in the 35mm range of focal lengths. To really go wider. Nikon has the 24mm for $2200 while Canon has both a 17mm and 24mm, each in the ~$2K range. Even if you went to MF, the available 35mm glass would only provide a 24mm FoV on the 135 format, at additional cost.
A MF 35mm will give you the angle of, well, a 35mm lens on a FF-camera. On APS-C it will give you the angle of view of app. a 50mm lens on a FF camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
If you are a manufacturer and want to do a ASP-c T/S lens, in addition to the tilt/shift mechanics, you really need to design an ultra wide angle set of optics, so that when its put on the body with the larger registration distance, you wind up with just a wide angle glass (and don't forget about the potential need for a wider image circle). Plus, since you need the mechanics for tilt, shifting is essentially free. So for either a FF or ASP-c sensor, you wind up redesigning everything.
The Ukrainian adapters come in two flavour shift OR tilt unfortunately. But they are cheap and well worth a try. The Russian 30mm Arsat is quite useable, even though contrast leasves a bit to be desired, but sharpness is okay. And the combinaiton of the Arsat+ shift adapter will be quite near the Pentax K shift lens, though much cheaper.

Ben
11-10-2012, 01:11 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ilovemypentax Quote
interested_observer : I didn't know a TS was not that good for a crop cam. I thought it worked on any format. Kinda busts the bubble. The 645D is what is needed then?Or if Pentax ever comes out with a FF.
Why wouldn't it be good for APS-C? I use the Pentax K 28mm shift lens regularily, when photographing biuildings. It is a fine and usefull lens, when used at infinite distances (it is very bad at short distances, and as such unsuitable for studio work). Also, the combination of a MF wide angle with an shift or tilt adapter ios a very workable combination.

You don't neccessarily need to buy the expensive Zörkendörfer (Zörk) adapters, though they have much smoother movements than the Ukrainian ones. But the Ukrainian ones will do the job.

Ben

11-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
A MF 35mm will give you the angle of, well, a 35mm lens on a FF-camera. On APS-C it will give you the angle of view of app. a 50mm lens on a FF camera.



The Ukrainian adapters come in two flavour shift OR tilt unfortunately. But they are cheap and well worth a try. The Russian 30mm Arsat is quite useable, even though contrast leasves a bit to be desired, but sharpness is okay. And the combinaiton of the Arsat+ shift adapter will be quite near the Pentax K shift lens, though much cheaper.

Ben
Hi Ben, - Thanks for keeping me honest. I was typing quickly and converted in the wrong direction - plus I did not go back and re-read it before hitting post. The point I was trying to make was that even with MF lenses, you could not go any wider, just narrower. On my shift lens, I have been using it to take an image at ever "clock stop" as you rotate the lens, then stitching them all together. Its a lot of images, with a lot of overlap (13 images - 1 in the middle and the 12 clock hour positions), but the resulting image is similar in size and detain to a 4x5.

11-10-2012, 03:03 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
On my shift lens, I have been using it to take an image at ever "clock stop" as you rotate the lens, then stitching them all together. Its a lot of images, with a lot of overlap (13 images - 1 in the middle and the 12 clock hour positions), but the resulting image is similar in size and detain to a 4x5.

Yes, your example is another good one to emphasize the usefulness of shift lenses. With the controlled movements of a shift lens, the stitching is much easier and with less loss of fidelity and resolution.

Ben
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