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05-10-2010, 04:06 PM   #1
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How much dust is acceptable from a brand new lens?

So I bought myself a Voigtlander Nokton 58mm about a month ago from Adorama. The first one came, with dust on both the inner front and rear elements, as well as the aperture blades. Today my new copy came, and bayum! Smack in the middle of the rear element is a nice chunk of dust (not to mention the wonderful track of bubbles in the glass).



So, do I:
a) Send this one back as well and ask for yet another copy?
b) Get a refund and go another route?
c) Smile and take it up the tailpipe, citing "it doesn't really affect image quality anyway" and deal with the shoddy (IMO) craftsmanship?

What do you guys think?

05-10-2010, 04:41 PM   #2
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The dust you're showing is ridiculous.

Unacceptable by any standards, let alone THIS lens.
05-10-2010, 04:52 PM   #3
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Looks like a used lens. Send it back.
05-10-2010, 05:10 PM   #4
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I'm just wondering now if it's even worth it to exchange again. The first one was far worse than this, and I was beginning to think I was just being anal. Lenses from my Canon days were always virtually dust free, and all the Pentax lenses I have acquired are dust free as well.

The only other VL's I can find online are $50-$100 more. Worth it to try the exchange route once again?

05-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #5
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Dust in a brand new lens is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. Either it has been used thoroughly or it was manufactured in an unclean environment. It probably won't affect image quality at all but it's still wrong.

I have heard numerous times that bubbles in glass is indicative of the very high quality of the glass. Often old Carl Zeiss Biotars T* 1Q glass would have bubbles. I think CZ and Voigtlander share a common factory now but the bubble thing should no longer apply to today's lenses.

Adorama is known to be a legitimate store but I've known them to screw around now and then. Selling old items as new is definitely in their repertoire. I would call, complain and ask for a discount for all the trouble you're going through on the third lens. If not, file a BBB complaint, a resellerrating complaint and buy it elsewhere.

QuoteOriginally posted by porterHause Quote
I'm just wondering now if it's even worth it to exchange again. The first one was far worse than this, and I was beginning to think I was just being anal. Lenses from my Canon days were always virtually dust free, and all the Pentax lenses I have acquired are dust free as well.

The only other VL's I can find online are $50-$100 more. Worth it to try the exchange route once again?
It is worth it if you can get a discount for your trouble. You are not being anal. This is a camera lens, not a burrito. There's no reason for a lens of this caliber to have this amount of dust and crap in it.
05-10-2010, 06:05 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote

Adorama is known to be a legitimate store but I've known them to screw around now and then. Selling old items as new is definitely in their repertoire. I would call, complain and ask for a discount for all the trouble you're going through on the third lens. If not, file a BBB complaint, a resellerrating complaint and buy it elsewhere.
I.
Bubble in the glass have nothing to do with selling a used lenses!!. It's defective
05-10-2010, 07:07 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Bubble in the glass have nothing to do with selling a used lenses!!. It's defective
I'm not sure you understood what I just said.

Please read this:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/discuss/72157623680651724/

It could very well just be a rumor, although unlikely. I did preface that this was what I had heard from numerous sources.

I just remarked that Voigtlander and Carl Zeiss shared a factory. However, the bubbles in glass should no longer occur as they now use newer methods to manufacture glass.
05-10-2010, 07:21 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
I'm not sure you understood what I just said.
I understand very well what you said.
My comments it's base on the fact that the lens is defective if they have bubble in the glass
Yes Adorama could have sold that lens and took it back and sold it again to somebody else. It's not a used lens , it's defective lens and need to go back to Adorama and Adorama need to sent it back to Voigtlander Nokton

If I was me , I would also send and e-mail with these photo to Voigtlander Nokton and inform them of that defect and including the serial #. This way , we put more chance that this lense is not going back again to somebody else.
If the lense was registered alredy , Bingo the retailer will be at fault.

Big difference between a used lense and a returned lense. If the person who return the lense do not inform the retailer of the defect, the retailer have no clue
The worst part is if the retailer put it back on the market knowing is defective that really bad and we shoud never accept this

05-10-2010, 07:36 PM   #9
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just curious... is cosina/voigtlander still in active production? i just purchased a used 180mm f4, (not received yet), and to my knowledge, this is not currently being manufactured....
.... i can't possibly conceive of any new lens being so dust laden... unless stored outside of it's box in a display case that was never dusted... or perhaps mounted on a body for a long period of time... then put back in the box for sale... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... hate to cast dispersions upon adorama, but.....
reasonable suggestion.. contact the manufacturer directly ..global site..
speak directly with them.......... i can tell you this....i'd be mighty perturbed as well...
best of luck..... p.s. our forum has adorama as an advertised retailer... perhaps 'we' should also have a dialogue with adorama...
dave m
05-10-2010, 08:59 PM   #10
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To their credit, Adorama has been helpful with the return (albeit a bit slow in processing), but this being the SECOND lens I've had to return really makes me wonder. As I did order from order from Adorama via a link from this website, perhaps it may be of interest to PF.
05-10-2010, 10:20 PM   #11
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Both Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses are made by Cosina, who owns the Voigtlander brand these days.

My Nokton was pristine, but I had a similar experience with a Zeiss lens I got from B&H. The first copy had so much fine dust that it looked like a starmap. I have no idea how it got that way. Worked fine, but I returned it for an exchange. The second copy was much better but still had some very fine dust in the center of the front element.

My recommendation is to exchange it until you get a good copy and get the store to pay for the return, because it's their fault.

I also don't understand why Voigtlander/Zeiss don't use some sort of seal on their packages. There's no way to know that the lens you purchased was not used as a demo and people focused it in and out sucking dust until the store decided to sell that copy.
05-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #12
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Eeeeenteresting. Well, their last shipment from Voigtlander/Cosina came on 21 April 2010, so it was definitely a new batch of lenses. They have 1 lens left, which is the in-store copy (I wonder if they re-sold the first one I returned???), so I am getting my hard earned cash refunded.

So now what? It seems like there is a lag in production, as B&H and Adorama are now both out of stock. Online prices at other retailers are $100 more than I paid. I'm tempted to revisit the DA*55/1.4. Definitely not the Zeiss 50/1.4 (I'll save for the makro planar 50 f/2 eventually). Any other recommendations?
05-11-2010, 03:42 PM   #13
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The price of the Nokton had not changed even though almost all the other brands hiked prices. It may be that the more expensive price will be the new price on any new stock and BH/adorama were just selling their last samples from the old stock.

I'm also curious what they do with the returned samples. In my case, I ended up contacting someone at Zeiss. They told me that dust is no problem and some dust can be visible even in new lenses. They also told me I could send it to them and they'd clean it up, but I was weary of sending a lens I just bought for who knows how many weeks. I gave them the S/N of the old lens I returned, just in case the store sent it to them for repairs, but they didn't seem to be particularly interested in tracking this issue. I'm somewhat baffled by all this - I would have expected them to take more seriously issues with the manufacturing of their lenses.

But I digress - I'm sorry of your problems with the Nokton. It's my favorite lens. I'm really not sure what would be an alternative for it - the build is as good as that of Zeiss lenses and I even prefer it to the Limiteds because of the manual focus. I'd wait a bit rather than going for another lens.

But if you really need to get something in that range, what about the Sigma 50/1.4? It's heavier, bulkier, and more expensive but I heard great things about it. Just an idea.
05-31-2010, 02:32 PM   #14
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5 months ago my quest for a fast 50(ish) started with the DA*55/1.4 and the Sigma 50/1.4. DA* has SDM issues that I'm not interested in dealing with, and I wasn't a big fan of the Sigma's boke. My quest led me to the CZ 50/1.4 and the Nokton, and the Nokton won hands down. I'll definitely be waiting for it. I saw a link to another post somewhere about a Steve's Camera or something that had the Nokton for sale. I just need Adorama to GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK first! Hope they're listening...it's been a while now.

As a side note, the only two lenses I didn't have to send back at least once are my 2 WR kit lenses. Most recently my 43 Limited which came with misaligned aperture blades.

Get a load of this shot taken wide open...


Being a Canon convert, I guess I'm just gonna have to get used to repetitive returns from online purchases until I get the quality I feel is required in lenses of this caliber.
05-31-2010, 02:37 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by porterHause Quote
So I bought myself a Voigtlander Nokton 58mm about a month ago from Adorama. The first one came, with dust on both the inner front and rear elements, as well as the aperture blades. Today my new copy came, and bayum! Smack in the middle of the rear element is a nice chunk of dust (not to mention the wonderful track of bubbles in the glass).



So, do I:
a) Send this one back as well and ask for yet another copy?
b) Get a refund and go another route?
c) Smile and take it up the tailpipe, citing "it doesn't really affect image quality anyway" and deal with the shoddy (IMO) craftsmanship?

What do you guys think?
thats amazing. it's instant BGN grade resale.
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