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05-17-2010, 11:57 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I don't think cropping from a photo taken with 15mm lens and blowing it up to get the 21mm field of view is of much use for landscape especially when you want to print large. I think you are severely underestimating the DA 21mm.
That's why i said you came move forward couple of steps to get a 21mm view without then need to crop. I see you have your DA 21mm up for sale. Any reason for that.


Last edited by Alex00; 05-18-2010 at 12:40 AM.
05-18-2010, 12:41 AM   #32
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Regarding moving forward, you can't always do that. If you believe with cropping you can avoid using longer lenses you will be limited to smaller images, which is not good if you want to print large.

As for the 21mm, I rarely use this focal lenght as it is too wide for my style of street photography it requires me to get too close and in Melbourne city this is not very safe. My widest lens for street is the FA 31mm Limited, I mainly use FA 43mm and 77mm. The DA 21mm has been sitting in the dry cabinet for more than 2 years, used it althogther 5-6 times.

BTW, You also forgot to mention the soft corner issues with DA 15mm which improves only after f/8.

Last edited by Voe; 05-18-2010 at 12:51 AM.
05-18-2010, 12:51 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I rarely use this focal lenght as it is too wide for my style of street photography it requires me to get too close and in Melbourne city this is not very safe. My widest lens for street is the FA 31mm Limited, I mainly use FA 43mm and 77mm. The lens has been sitting in the dry cabinet for more than 2 years, used it althogther 5-6 times.
I understand. I'm sure many would be interested...
05-18-2010, 01:07 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
Regarding moving forward, you can't always do that. If you believe with cropping you can avoid using longer lenses you will be limited to smaller images, which is not good if you want to print large.

As for the 21mm, I rarely use this focal lenght as it is too wide for my style of street photography it requires me to get too close and in Melbourne city this is not very safe. My widest lens for street is the FA 31mm Limited, I mainly use FA 43mm and 77mm. The DA 21mm has been sitting in the dry cabinet for more than 2 years, used it althogther 5-6 times.

BTW, You also forgot to mention the soft corner issues with DA 15mm which improves only after f/8.
I don't see any reason why you want to shoot below f8 for such a wide angle lens. That's the reason for having a wide lens, to get allot in focus. At night you can shoot f8 with with longer shutter speed. No reason to go below f8. In some occasions i use f5.6 for things like portraiture to limit DOF and get maximum center sharpness. DA 15mm is capable of producing stunning portraits. You may have seen my other thread doing portraits with DA 15mm. As for f4 i rarely use that. It's never recommended to use the first f stop of any lens anyway.

05-18-2010, 01:24 AM   #35
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I like the DA21 because it offers a pretty natural perspective. Using a lens with a wider angle of view and cropping isn't quite the same.
I like my seasoned 21mm because it is really so compact that there is little reason to leave it out of the camera bag. It makes for a natural lens for street shooting.

Shot of Singapore CBD from the Helix Bridge.

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05-18-2010, 01:38 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I like the DA21 because it offers a pretty natural perspective. Using a lens with a wider angle of view and cropping isn't quite the same.
I like my seasoned 21mm because it is really so compact that there is little reason to leave it out of the camera bag. It makes for a natural lens for street shooting.

Shot of Singapore CBD from the Helix Bridge.
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This is a perfect example why you should have used 15mm instead of 21mm. The left side of your photo looks cut off. It's hard to crop any part of the left side to make the framing right. You could have gotten few extra building on the left with the 15mm which would have made a huge difference with the framing and therefore a better overall shot.

The buildings on the left looks tilted to the right, i can't tell if that's the barrel distortion or perspective.
05-18-2010, 01:56 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I don't see any reason why you want to shoot below f8 for such a wide angle lens. That's the reason for having a wide lens, to get allot in focus.
I wonder why companies keep making all the f/2.8 ultra wide angle lenses....
If only f/8 is the usable aperture on a ultra wideangle lens then why do Pentax made it an f/4 lens? On a crop sensor with the DA 15mm you have an enormous DoF even at f/4.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
At night you can shoot f8 with with longer shutter speed. No reason to go below f8.
Yes, there is, I don't need to stop down to f/8 and loose shutter speed unless I really want to.
DA 15mm main advantage is it's size and weight for it's focal lenght. What is the point of having an ultra light and small lens if you gonna carry a tripod? I might be better/lighter off getting the DA 12-24mm for more flexibility and better corner sharpness.

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
In some occasions i use f5.6 for things like portraiture to limit DOF and get maximum center sharpness. DA 15mm is capable of producing stunning portraits. You may have seen my other thread doing portraits with DA 15mm.
I wouldn't have thought that it's possible to do portraits ("stunning"?) with an ultra wideangle lens like the DA 15mm at f/5.6 and in the same time having a short DoF unless you get really close where you get face distortion. With all due respect after looking at the baby portrait with your DA 15mm (beautiful baby) the DA 15mm is not a lens suitable for portraits, not that you can't take portraits with it, it's just that you need a longer focal lenght to avoid face distortion.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
As for f4 i rarely use that. It's never recommended to use the first f stop of any lens anyway.
Acording Photozone DA 15mm is stunning in the center even at f/4, it's just that corners are not good enough until f/8.
05-18-2010, 02:05 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I wonder why companies keep making all the f/2.8 ultra wide angle lenses....
If only f/8 is the usable aperture on a ultra wideangle lens then why do Pentax made it an f/4 lens? On a crop sensor with the DA 15mm you have an enormous DoF even at f/4.
Same reason why you have the unusable f22.


QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
Yes, there is, I don't need to stop down to f/8 and loose shutter speed unless I really want to.
DA 15mm main advantage is it's size and weight for it's focal lenght. What is the point of having an ultra light and small lens if you gonna carry a tripod? I might be better/lighter off getting the DA 12-24mm for more flexibility and better corner sharpness.
Even if you shoot at f4 at night, I wouldn't worry about soft corners since you won't be able to make up corners in low light.

As for 12-24mm you would get CA on every image that is very difficult to correct.


QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I wouldn't have thought that it's possible to do portraits ("stunning"?) with an ultra wideangle lens like the DA 15mm at f/5.6 and in the same time having a short DoF unless you get really close where you get face distortion. With all due respect after looking at the baby portrait with your DA 15mm (beautiful baby) the DA 15mm is not a lens suitable for portraits, not that you can't take portraits with it, it's just that you need a longer focal lenght to avoid face distortion.
I respect your opinion.


Last edited by Alex00; 05-18-2010 at 02:18 AM.
05-18-2010, 02:56 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Same reason why you have the unusable f22.
I wouldn't put f/2.8 and f/22 in the same category and it's obvious why.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Even if you shoot at f4 at night, I wouldn't worry about soft corners since you won't be able to make up corners in low light.
I don't understand what you mean..

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
As for 12-24mm you would get CA on every image that is very difficult to correct.
1. With 12-24mm you don't get CA on every image.

2. CA on a Pentax DA lens is not diffucult to correct.
Pentax K7 (and most likely every future model ) have CA auto correction.
If you don't have K7 you can still still use built-in correction tools in Lightroom or other PP programs.



QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I respect your opinion.

I also respect your opinion but I just want to make a point here that based on my discussion with you it's pointless to exaggerate in order to support your point when it is easy to be refuted by people with basic photographic knowledge.
05-18-2010, 04:25 AM   #40
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I guess it depends if you favour the versatility of a zoom or the portability & speed of a prime. I don't think 21mm would satisfy my WA needs. I've only shot a handful of shots with the 21mm but, 17-18mm is a sweeter spot for me.

Of course it depends on what you point it at, but i've seen some great images from the 10-20mm and I quite like the perspective.

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I don't see any reason why you want to shoot below f8 for such a wide angle lens. That's the reason for having a wide lens, to get allot in focus
I'm not really understanding much of what you are saying. The reason to have a wide angle lens is not exactly to get a lot in focus but to get more of the environment into the image, even if a large portion of the environment is OOF. I shoot at 17mm f2.8-4 most of the time.

Last edited by fractal; 05-18-2010 at 04:31 AM.
05-18-2010, 11:10 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
... I think you are severely underestimating the DA 21mm.
Clearly.
05-18-2010, 11:12 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I wouldn't put f/2.8 and f/22 in the same category and it's obvious why.
Why??.

You will get softer corners with the DA 21mm if you shoot at f3.2 compared to the DA 15mm at f4.


QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote

I don't understand what you mean.
In low light corners will not be obvious. it's no big issue to be concerned about. Below is a photo shot at f4. I would be surprised if you can tell soft corners.



QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote

1. With 12-24mm you don't get CA on every image.

2. CA on a Pentax DA lens is not difficult to correct.
Pentax K7 (and most likely every future model ) have CA auto correction.
If you don't have K7 you can still still use built-in correction tools in Lightroom or other PP programs.
CA is a killer on the 12-24mm. I was going for the 12-24mm before i went for the DA 15mm. Every single image shot with the 12-24mm had purple/blue fringing. Built in camera purple fringing correction will desaturated other important colors in your photo depending on the photo. You would use photoshop to manually correct purple fringing. I don't know how much photoshop knowledge you have, but you need to to trace the brush over edges where fringing is occurring so you don't damage other similar and important colors in the photo. It's a tedious process.

QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
I also respect your opinion but I just want to make a point here that based on my discussion with you it's pointless to exaggerate in order to support your point when it is easy to be refuted by people with basic photographic knowledge.
I understand your trying to sell your 21mm and you would argue endlessly. I had no intention of starting an argument. I was just replying to this thread where the questions was "should i sell my 21mm Limited"; and i gave my opinion :-).

Last edited by Alex00; 05-18-2010 at 01:38 PM.
05-18-2010, 11:29 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
This is a perfect example why you should have used 15mm instead of 21mm. The left side of your photo looks cut off. It's hard to crop any part of the left side to make the framing right. You could have gotten few extra building on the left with the 15mm which would have made a huge difference with the framing and therefore a better overall shot.

The buildings on the left looks tilted to the right, i can't tell if that's the barrel distortion or perspective.
That was a superb photo of Singapore. A wider angle lens would have emphasized the expanse of water in the foreground as well as bringing in the other buildings. It would be a very different shot.

The tilt on the buildings is obviously perspective.
05-18-2010, 02:38 PM   #44
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so many lenses to choose from, so little money to spend! if I had to have just one lens, I would pick the 21mm, but then I already got the kit lens, so the 15mm is a better choice.
05-18-2010, 05:22 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Why??.






CA is a killer on the 12-24mm. I was going for the 12-24mm before i went for the DA 15mm. Every single image shot with the 12-24mm had purple/blue fringing. Built in camera purple fringing correction will desaturated other important colors in your photo depending on the photo. You would use photoshop to manually correct purple fringing. I don't know how much photoshop knowledge you have, but you need to to trace the brush over edges where fringing is occurring so you don't damage other similar and important colors in the photo. It's a tedious process.
Send me some of what you are smoking. I could use some mind numbing that doesn't involve whisky. I just finished a shoot of an apartment interior using mostly my 12-24, with a few shots done with the 15LTD, and some shot with the 21 as well.

The only lens that gave me fringing was the 15.

QuoteQuote:

I understand your trying to sell your 21mm and you would argue endlessly. I had no intention of starting an argument. I was just replying to this thread where the questions was "should i sell my 21mm Limited"; and i gave my opinion :-).
You should try backing your opinions with knowledge. It will serve you better in the long run.
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