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05-20-2010, 01:32 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Post an untouched image. Prove me wrong. Too much talk and no action.
OK here's one of mine with the 12-24 at 12mm... I've already posted two images on this thread. So where are your own pictures? No picture no talk...



05-20-2010, 01:35 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Ok guys, just to be fair, here is my say regarding the DA12-24.

all of you guys, Alex, creampuff, robin, and Wheatfield are partially correct with regards to CA.

in some situations, CA does appear, and in some, Don't appear. it can be horrible, especially against subject with backgrounds with strong highlights.

I had some shots taken with my 18-55 WR and DA12-24 at 20mm taking the same objects ( outside the Vancouver Museum on a sunny day) and displaying a different degree of CA. the kitlens was ok with regards to CA control but horrible with distortion, sharpness and contrast. the DA12-24 however got some strong CA, especially in the blue channel (most times).

I'm not saying that the kitlens nor DA15 dont have nor display CA. but what I'm saying is that the DA12-24 is more easily succeptible to CA as far as my use of it most of the time goes. there are steps however to avoid, minimize, or correct CA. it can be troublesome for some and can be negligible or easily solved by others.

honestly, I love my DA12-24 and rather disappointed with my kitlens. it is because I can work my way easily thru the CA that my DA12-24 displays. and NO, I dont have a defective copy (lol).
kitlens may have better CA control, but it failed my standard for architectures and landscapes.

if you want to work your way around CA, as I had mentioned several times, shoot at f8 and over or try to avoid shooting at wide open at the wider focal range (12mm-16mm but still very workable), shoot carefully (angle and positioning), avoid shooting objects with strong highlights and over and finally use some pp CA correction tools if you want to use it at faster apertures under harsh conditions.

btw, here is an example that I took with the DA12-24 shot at 12mm with an f5.6 opening.
I did some excellent CA corrections on the image. notice the highlight reflections on the bumper, those were full of CA's initially before I made the corrections afterwards. it only took me a few steps to remove 'em (less than a minute I think). as far as concerns with desaturating the other colors, judge for yourself if there is really a need to worry about it.

lastly, if you think that CA correction is a tedious work for you, just shoot B&W.
Thank you for the confirmation and input.

When i tried my 12-24mm, i tested both outdoor and indoors, 100% of the images had fringing.

Fringing occurs on lines of high contrast. The flower photo may not be the best example due to the dark yellow on dark background with shallow DOF and no lines of high contrast which makes it very unlikely for fringing to occur. I can almost guranteed any image taken indoors or outdoors will have fringing.

Can you post a full size image of the flower.
I'll be waiting for shots by others who argues CA is no issue with 12-24mm and that the 15mm surprisingly have more fringing.

Last edited by Alex00; 05-20-2010 at 01:43 AM.
05-20-2010, 01:36 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
OK here's one of mine with the 12-24 at 12mm... I've already posted two images on this thread. So where are your own pictures? No picture no talk...
This is not an untouched image. Post full size untouched image. I will be waiting for that.

Below are 2 high contrast images where fringing is most likely to appear taken with the DA 15mm . If still not satisfied, I'll post more images to look at.


Last edited by Alex00; 05-20-2010 at 02:13 AM.
05-20-2010, 02:34 AM   #64
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did I miss something? i still don't see any pics with CA. maybe the page didnt load correctly.

05-20-2010, 02:59 AM   #65
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Who gives a shit about your DA 15mm images.
You made the claim that you found CA to be very bad on the DA 12-24mm.
So where are your images taken with the DA 12-24mm to prove the point?

Last edited by creampuff; 05-20-2010 at 02:30 PM.
05-20-2010, 04:27 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Thank you for the confirmation and input.

When i tried my 12-24mm, i tested both outdoor and indoors, 100% of the images had fringing.

Fringing occurs on lines of high contrast. The flower photo may not be the best example due to the dark yellow on dark background with shallow DOF and no lines of high contrast which makes it very unlikely for fringing to occur. I can almost guranteed any image taken indoors or outdoors will have fringing.

Can you post a full size image of the flower.
I'll be waiting for shots by others who argues CA is no issue with 12-24mm and that the 15mm surprisingly have more fringing.
No, I dont have the original anymore. but I can assure you that that image does not have CA. I have other images with varying results from strong CA, mild CA, little CA to no CA. the results depend on the focal range (wider range got more obvious strong CA then decreases at the longer end) , aperture speed ( f8 and over gives you nice results), contrast level ( I suspect this as the main culprit for CA due to lens' strong contrast rendering, so lowering the custom image would help at an extent), then the condition and shooting setup. I had shot indoors and outdoors with the lens but never had 100% CA on all my images. as I said, it depends on the factors that I mentioned.

worst setting would be at 12mm, f4, increased contrast under harsh condition. again.

anyway, if people are interested, I would be willing to post photos with strong CA. but can be corrected handily or easily with proper tools and knowledge.

since I shoot RAW, it doesn't matter to me to make the corrections.
05-20-2010, 04:39 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Who gives a shit about your DA 15mm images.
Take it easy, don't let your feelings get in the way.

Those are very nice images. I wasn't looking to buy another UWA, but that DA15 is something special alright, so I've got to have it. I was thinking about the DA21, but the DA15... well that's a hard act to follow.
05-20-2010, 04:52 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Take it easy, don't let your feelings get in the way.

Those are very nice images. I wasn't looking to buy another UWA, but that DA15 is something special alright, so I've got to have it. I was thinking about the DA21, but the DA15... well that's a hard act to follow.
Yes, the DA15 has a well controlled CA. not as harsh as the DA12-24 at the wider/faster apertures.

both the DA12-24 and DA15 are great for their intended purpose. between the DA21 and DA15, the DA15 would be a better choice.


Last edited by Pentaxor; 05-20-2010 at 11:38 AM.
05-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Who gives a shit about your DA 15mm images.
You made the claim that you found CA to be very bad on the DA 12-24mm.
So are your images taken with the DA 12-24mm to prove the point?
I'm not surprised you could'nt provide a untouched image. This was expected. I suggest you don't get yourself in more trouble then you can handle. Frustration leads to cursing. Understandable. But also lying??? not looking good.

Last edited by Alex00; 05-20-2010 at 11:26 AM.
05-20-2010, 11:24 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I'm not surprised you could'nt provide a untouched image. This was expected. I suggest you don't get yourself in more trouble then you can handle. You're just fooling yourself. Frustration leads to cursing. Understandable. But also lying??? not looking good.
At the risk of stepping into something that I should probably just stay out of, how did this become a "my lens is better than your lens thread"? I've owned both the 15 and 21 (I actually sold my copy of the 21 to the OP) and have seen enough from the 12-24 to know that all three lenses are capable of producing outstanding photographs in the hands of good photographers. Are any of the three lenses perfect? No. Do they all involve some amount of some level of compromise in terms of size, range, CA, distortion, etc? Yes.

Ok, I'll step back now.
05-20-2010, 01:57 PM   #71
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Alex,

1. I don't have the DA 12-24mm but since you so fervently demand lens image samples, why don't you go to Photozone.de and find a DA 12-24mm sample with CA that you are afraid so much of?

2. With K7 camera and DA lens, CA can be automatically corrected. So what's all the noise about it? If you don't have K7 go and get a Lightroom or any other camera RAW/JPG processing image software (every self respected photographger should have one) do the job for you with a click of a few buttons. You don't need Photoshop skills to do this.

3. According Photozone.de the DA 15mm might not have much CA but it suffers from field curvature and soft corners up to f/8. It's easier to remove CA, than to add missing image information due to soft corners. So if I follow your illogic you have yourself a very compact 15mm f/8 prime lens.

Last edited by Voe; 05-20-2010 at 02:07 PM.
05-20-2010, 02:04 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Voe Quote
Alex,

1. I don't have the DA 12-24mm but since you so fervently demand lens image samples, why don't you go to Photozone.de and find a DA 12-24mm sample with CA that you are afraid so much of?

2. With K7 camera and DA lens, CA can be automatically corrected. So what's all the noise about it?

3. According Photozone.de the DA 15mm might not have much CA but it suffers from field curvature and soft corners up to f/8. It's easier to remove CA than add missing image information where it's missing due to soft corners. So if I follow your illogic you have yourself a very compact 15mm f/8 prime lens.

4. If the above is not correct, prove me wrong, or go out and take some pictures intstead of arguing with everyone.
Do you know how to pixel peep??. Every single image at photozone for the 12-24mm have fringing. Do yourself a favor and Stop trying to prove your point. It's already be proven otherwise. The owner of this thread sold his 21mm and you have yours for sale too. Stop trying to jump from one subject to another, First it's distortions, then CA, then corners, then vignetting now you're going into cureveture, non of which are related to this thread. i would keep quite if i was you , you do not even have a 12-24mm and you want to argue.

Last edited by Alex00; 05-20-2010 at 02:23 PM.
05-20-2010, 02:29 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I'm not surprised you could'nt provide a untouched image. This was expected. I suggest you don't get yourself in more trouble then you can handle. Frustration leads to cursing. Understandable. But also lying??? not looking good.
Who the fxxx are you calling a liar? I didn't correct any CA, merely a curves adjustment and resized.
First you diss my photo that I had posted earlier using a 21mm for no fxxxing rhyme or reason on post #36 of this thread. Was that warranted?

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
This is a perfect example why you should have used 15mm instead of 21mm. The left side of your photo looks cut off. It's hard to crop any part of the left side to make the framing right. You could have gotten few extra building on the left with the 15mm which would have made a huge difference with the framing and therefore a better overall shot.

The buildings on the left looks tilted to the right, i can't tell if that's the barrel distortion or perspective.
FYI, I don't need you to tell me what fxxxing lens I ought to use, nor do I need a critique from someone who can't shoot for nuts. Until that point I chose not to respond to your earlier comment, and in my second post I merely state that the 12-24mm that I have doesn't appear to suffer from the CA issues that you have brought up. You have asked for photographic proof but thus far, you haven't even posted a single image from a 12-24 yourself to back your claim.

So I'm calling out for you to show us your photos taken with a DA 12-24mm to prove to all of us what you have stated earlier. After all you said in post #46 you got a ton of images with the problem.

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
As for 12-24mm you would get CA on every image that is very difficult to correct
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
CA is a killer on the 12-24mm. I was going for the 12-24mm before i went for the DA 15mm. Every single image shot with the 12-24mm had purple/blue fringing.
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
I took many shots with the 12-24mm and every single one had fringing in it.
You don't like the 12-24mm fine, but no need to be an ass to others who don't share your opinion on it.
05-20-2010, 02:50 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Who the fxxx are you calling a liar?
First you diss my photo that I had posted earlier using a 21mm for no fxxxing rhyme or reason on post #36 of this thread. Was that warranted?
If i remember correctly i'm not the only person who told you the 21mm is not suitable for the image you took.


QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
FYI, I don't need you to tell me what fxxxing lens I ought to use, nor do I need a critique from someone who can't shoot for nuts. Until that point I chose not to respond to your earlier comment, and in my second post I merely state that the 12-24mm that I have doesn't appear to suffer from the CA issues that you have brought up. You have asked for photographic proof but thus far, you haven't even posted a single image from a 12-24 yourself to back your claim.
You need to calm down. It's not good for your blood pressure.



QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
So I'm calling out for you to show us your photos taken with a DA 12-24mm to prove to all of us what you have stated earlier. After all you said in post #46 you got a ton of images with the problem.
It's funny you're the one calling. Where is your untouched image for the photo you posted earlier.prove me wrong in-font of everyone. Your the one who posted the image claiming no fringing occurred. All i asked was to post the original untouched image for verification. Put your words where you mouth is. I can feel your frustration not being able to show it and you got your self more then what you can handle.

I will assure you in front on everyone, i will post 12-24mm images when i see an untouched image of yours. Pentaxor also offered to show images with heavy fringing. In addition You can go to photozone and check images for the 12-24, you'll see the fringing.


QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
You don't like the 12-24mm fine, but no need to be an ass to others who don't share your opinion on it.
You must have missed my posts above. I did mention the 12-24 to be a great lens but CA not working for me. I never started the 12-24mm conversation to begin with and never offended anyone for that matter.

Finally, the images i posted for the 15mm, are only to show the worse case scenario where fringing is most likely to appear. No opinions were requested.

Last edited by Alex00; 05-20-2010 at 03:11 PM.
05-20-2010, 03:32 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Do you know how to pixel peep??. Every single image at photozone for the 12-24mm have fringing.
You are joking right?

5. You should learn more about the differences between fringing and CA, before you come up here, as it seems you are confused.

6. Show me a DA 12-24mm image on photozone which has more CA or fringing than this shot taken with DA 15mm (http://photozone.smugmug.com/photos/684543736_7Ar7z-O.jpg)


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Do yourself a favor and Stop trying to prove your point. It's already be proven otherwise.
7. My point? I don't have a point I'm just answering illogical and childish claims that DA 12-24mm (due to CA) and the DA 21mm (barrel distorion, vignetting) are useless and the DA 15mm is the holy grail of lenses. I say it's not, and you seems to have a problem with that.

8. Proven by whom? A fact is you don't get CA in every image as proven by many images posted. Even on Photozone.de.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
The owner of this thread sold his 21mm and you have yours for sale too.
9. Thank you Alex00, that's very good thing to know. You may have forgotten but this is the second time you ask this question, already answered here (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/101189-should-...ml#post1046919) and you said that you understand here (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/101189-should-...ml#post1046919). Please note that by posting my opinion on this forum I'm not trying to sell my lens.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex00 Quote
Stop trying to jump from one subject to another, First it's distortions, then CA, now you're going into cureveture.
Am I really doing that? Sorry, I was merely replying to your posts, which is of not much help to you, as you seems very confused. But worry not, I will try and help you out:

Maybe you forgot again but you are the first who involved the distortion in this thread here (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/101189-should-...ml#post1046407)

The word distortion mentioned by me here (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/101189-should-...ml#post1046951) was in regards to what You said: "use f5.6 for things like portraiture to limit DOF and get maximum center sharpness. DA 15mm is capable of producing stunning portraits". And I told you using ultra wideangle lens like the DA 15mm at f/5.6 for portraits and trying to achieve limited DoF will not work unless you get really close, and you get face distortion.


Just a reminder, you seems to be avoiding points 1, 2 and 3. made in my previous comment. Please as I kindly respond to each of your points feel free to do the same for me.
Thank you Alex00.

Last edited by Voe; 05-20-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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