Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-12-2010, 03:02 PM   #1
Site Supporter
cyberjunkie's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bologna, Amsterdam, Chiang Mai
Posts: 266
Shift adapter made in Ukraina

I hope i'm posting on the right forum, after all it's about a lens accessory...
Well, i just purchased one of those Ukrainan-made adapters hatare on sale on the bay.
I knew all too well that a shift adapter with a Pentacon Six lens mount, and a P-K camera attachment, would be a difficult proposition, even more if the camera is a DSRL. While tilt adapters can be used with longer focals, most of the practical implementations of a shift device involve architectural photography. So a good wide angle is practically a must.
Having known all that, and with the rational side of my brain that was shouting "buy the tilt adapter!", i opted for the shift one.
Neverthe less i had a few (good?) reasons:
1) i own a couple of LF camera with all the movements you could need, and even a Mamiya Universal Press with tilting back
2) i mostly use 35mm and digital cameras for travel photography, and when you are on the road architectural subjects are more likely than table tops and close-ups
3) i had an insane curiosity to test a Zodiak 30mm fisheye with Pentacon Six bajonet i already own, to see how the central part of the image would perform (distorsion free?), and how much you need to shift the lens to encounter the bent lines that are the trademark effect of any fisheye

I had just got the adapter, but i know already the answer to most of my question.
To put it simply, even a fisheye that reportedly covers the 6x7 format, needs very little shifting to show in the most evident way its optical character. Only the very center looks immune from the field curvature, as soon as you shift enough to call it a shift lens, the horizontal and vertical lines get bent in the most evident way.
I will have to try again taking care that the camera is perfectly hortogonal to the ground, but the lack of a tripod attachment on the lens could be a big problem.
I am somewhat scared that fixing the camera to the tripod would cause an excessive stress on the bajonet attachment. The lens is so heavy, compared to the Pentax lenses for 35mm and DSRL cameras, that i wouldn't feel so easy if i had to carry around the camera with the lens attached, and without sustaining the fisheye with my left hand. During my quick test the barrel of the lens was constantly braced by my hand. Incidentally, is it a rational fear, or should i go easy and be confident on the traditional build quality of the Pentax cameras? What do you think about it?
To be truly sincere, i don't feel that recent cameras have the same strong build quality of, say, my LX or my K2. Is it just a feeling, due to the heavier materials that were used at the time, or could it be true?

Coming back to the shift adapter, my first thought was to look for a Mir 45mm, the shortest wide angle lens readily available with Pentacon Six mount.
Unfortunately it's a not-so-short focal with a 35mm, even more so with an APS-C sensor!
Unfortunately i don't own such lens, nor a 50mm CZJ Distagon. All the Pentacon Six lenses that i purchased, long time ago, where got with the perspective to be adapted for my Pentax 6x7. I did so with a Pentacon/Meyer Optik 5.6/500mm, and with the beatiful bellows, but i left alone both the Zodiak fisheye (too difficult to adapt) and the Sonnar 300mm (too easy... but now my photo mechanic has retired!).
Now, back to the adapter. I am afraid that i would not find any pratical use for a shifting 45mm. I am curious to see what's your opinion?
I have always used wide-angles for architectural pictures, but sometiimes when you can back off a little a normal could be used. It true that the prospectical distorsions are enhanced with shorter focals... so the question is still open.

Another option would be to strip the adapter of the P-K attachment, and replace it with a 6x7 one. That way would easier to find a suitable lens, but there are mechanical problems involved. The only wide-angles with enough coverage would be those for 6.5x9 view cameras. I have both conventional and variable length tubes for the 6x7, so a transplant would be possible. What's quite complicate, is to respect the lens-to-film distance (to be more precise, from the center of the optical system to the film). If somebody has tried something similar, please post your experience. The optimum would be to fit a 47mm Super Angulon-type lens, but non-retrofocus wide-angles must be placed at a distance that's equal to their focal length. I am afraid that at 47mm, it would be too tight. Even placing the lens in hyperfocal, with no focusing device. Unfortunately the flange of the 6x7 is placed quite away from the film plane, and that's making the project even more complicate.

In the end, to make a complex thing as short as possible, i'm open to any advice.
I'd be happy to receive suggestion about lenses, preferably not so expensive, that could be used either for the 35mm/APS-C, or for the 6x7.
Apart from view camera lenses, i know that few lenses have a wider coverage than what you'd expect to be. For example some optics for Leica's Visoflex could be seen adapted for view camera use.
Speaking of view camera lenses, i know that there are some examples of (moderately) retrofocus schemes, but i don't know which models i should look for.
For 35mm/APS-C, a retrofocus lens is practically a must, but i am not aware of which lens could fit my needs.
Pentax brand shift lenses are quite expensive used, either for 35mm or 6x7, so even a rather complex adaptation work could be worth the money. But it must be carefully projected, before proceeding to the purchase of a suitable lens.
I'm all ears, waiting for same help from the most experience users

have fun

CJ

05-13-2010, 03:55 AM   #2
Veteran Member
chromo's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Coast NSW
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 563
Sorry....I totally lost you right after you said "I hope i'm posting on the right forum"
05-13-2010, 07:04 AM   #3
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,279
Wait - what was the question?

You seem to want lens advice, but you haven't said what you are trying to do (aside from fit the lens into a shift adapter and put it on a 6x7, 35mm, or APS-C camera). Architecture? Landscapes? Panoramics?

I've used a Ukrainian P6-K shift adapter (see this link), and the weight is no problem at all (my DA*50-135 weighs more). However, you are right that most "ultra-wide" medium format lenses are pretty "long" on 35mm or APS-C cameras, but that's the nature of the image-circle beast, right?

Also, I'm not sure the image circle of any 6x6 lens is going to respond well (ie: vignetting, curvature, edge softness) to being shifted on a 6x7 body, and the 30mm Zodiak is pretty much useless (as you've discovered) with almost any movement. Arax sells a nice 55mm PCS (shift) lens for P6 which *might* be adaptable to 6x7, and will definitely work on a 35mm with your adapter... but its 55mm. I'm pretty sure my CZJ 50/4 is a better lens, and slightly wider, but then I haven't tried the Arsat PCS.
05-14-2010, 08:46 PM   #4
Site Supporter
cyberjunkie's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bologna, Amsterdam, Chiang Mai
Posts: 266
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Wait - what was the question?

You seem to want lens advice, but you haven't said what you are trying to do (aside from fit the lens into a shift adapter and put it on a 6x7, 35mm, or APS-C camera). Architecture? Landscapes? Panoramics?
Of course it would be for architecture. Recently i mostly photograph when i am on travel, but i've never traveled with heavy equipments like a 6x9/4x5", that kind of cameras would be a perfect choice for architectural pictures, but probably i am not dedicated enough Or maybe i just don't like to travel with too much baggage!
By the way, low cost airlines are not very friendly with photographers with heavy and bulky equipments. You have to choose between your clothes and your camera set!
So a shift lens, that could be used either with 35mm or digital Pentax reflex cameras, would be very welcome.
The second choice would be to have a shift optic for my Pentax 6x7, i can't say that's a light camera... but at least it can be used handheld!


QuoteQuote:
I've used a Ukrainian P6-K shift adapter (see this link), and the weight is no problem at all (my DA*50-135 weighs more). However, you are right that most "ultra-wide" medium format lenses are pretty "long" on 35mm or APS-C cameras, but that's the nature of the image-circle beast, right?
I am not saying that i am afraid about the weigth of the adapter itself.
It's the lens that sits on the adapter that makes me nervous.
When i tried the Zodiak, the weigth of the lens + shift adapter combo was really terrible, but i don't think that your 50mm Distagon is much lighter.
I don't own the lens, but i know how it is. A lot of good heavy optical glass and a robust barrel. The Zodiak has a front lens the size of a cooking pan, but the weight of the barrel should be more or less the same. So the difference in weigth shouldn't be so big. If you used the 50mm from Jena on the shift adapter, without any special care, and using the tripod the conventional way... well, it means that the Pentax bayonet mount is very strong, even on modern cameras!


QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I'm pretty sure my CZJ 50/4 is a better lens, and slightly wider, but then I haven't tried the Arsat PCS.
Even better, being a lishtly shorter focal, is the Mir 45mm
I tend to agree that CZJ lenses are much better than what many people tend to believe. But ex-CCCP glasses are very good as well, only even more underrated.
Sooner or later i will buy the 45mm. As soon as i have sold all the Kiev 60 stuff, i think i'll search for a good offer on Ebay.
Only the practice will tell if there could be some use for it. I don't think that i would use it very often, just now and then. It would suffice: there are some prime lenses that cost an eye, and i rarely use them.
Of course it would be much better if someone comes out from somewhere, saying the there is some lens out there with a bigger coverage than what you'd expect to be.
Just as an example, i'm not saying they would allow any usable amount of shifting, but i know that many lenses with Pentacon Six mount have a 6x7 coverage. Even the fisheye has been adapted for the Pentax 6x7, lots of mechanical problems, but coverage is enough. Most of the teles, be it Pentacon o CZJ, cover 6x7cm. with a certain ease. Probably most of the optics made in Russia/Ukraina could do it as well.
The Zodiak fisheye came in my hands just for that reason. As the 300mm Sonnar and the 500mm Pentacon/Meyer.
Unfortunately teles are more likely to cover more, not wide-angles...

have fun

CJ

Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adapter, camera, cameras, fisheye, k-mount, lens, lenses, pentax lens, shift, slr lens, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
43mm 1.9 - Made in Japan Vs. Made Wherever today? Quality Issues? PentaxForums-User Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 6 05-09-2010 01:49 PM
For Sale - Sold: Collection of M42 and Pentacon 6 lenses, P6 Shift-adapter Voe Sold Items 17 09-06-2009 03:29 PM
My self-made tilt/shift bellows chse Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 22 06-20-2009 08:49 AM
Tilt/Shift and Shift lens Thingo Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 1 11-16-2006 05:03 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:36 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top