Suggestion: Great Big Pentax Lens Survey

summonbaka · 05-21-2010, 09:57 AM

If you put a DA-L version of a lens, put also an option for a non-DA-L version for it. I have the DA-L kits and I wouldn't like to associate that ones with an historically excellent 35/2 or 50/1.7 (I own both in M series and they are too damn good for a DA-L version).

And I also think it's a little too repetitive and long for a small amount of lenses. Great idea that can still get plenty of efficience.

Adam · 05-21-2010, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers

First, thanks for the support Adam. I was actually thinking last night it would probably look a lot better if the URL started with pentaxforums.com, rather than home.planet...etc., so yes, it would probably be a good idea if you hosted it.

What do you mean by this?

Furthermore, after some thinking, I decided it's probably better to leave out all the lenses that are no longer for sale right now. This will make the list considerably shorter, so it'll be less of a hassle to fill out, and less of a hassle to analyse. Instead I thought an option for ever lens that says 'I don't own this lens; I have a manual equivalent that suits me just fine', would be interesting. For example, I think the DA*55 will be suffering from this.

So, the revised options list would be:

1 Yes, I own this lens
2 Yes, I own this lens but want to sell it
3 Yes, I own this lens, I'd consider buying it again if it were upgraded
4 No, I don't own this lens, but I used to own this lens
5 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it
6 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it because I own a third-party equivalent of this lens
7 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it because I own a manual equivalent of this lens
8 No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist
9 No, I don't own this lens; I'd consider buying it if it were upgraded

I've added 'Yes' and 'No' so it's easier to spot which are 'own' and which are 'don't own'. The numbers will make it easer to analyse, because one can quicklier tell what the answer is.

The answers, by the way, are compiled like this (click for bigger):

It can be exported to Excel, and hopefully someone here knows how to work that program, because I don't. Hopefully there's a workaround to counting everything manually.

What's more, we need a list of lenses for the 'if this lens were to become a reality, would you be interested in it?' part of the survey. So please, come with suggestions. What I've got so far (I've not bothered with differentiating between DA, DA* and DA ltd. DAL means 'a very cheaply made lens'):

DA 10-17mm f3.5-4.5 Fisheye WR
DA 11-16mm f2.8
DA 12-24mm f4 WR
DA 17-70mm f4 WR
DA 18-105mm F4-5.6
DA 24mm f2
DA 28mm f2
DAL 35mm f2
DAL 50mm f1.7
DA 55-300mm f4-5.8 WR
DA 85mm f1.4
DA 100-300mm f4-5.6
DA 135mm f1.8/2.8
DA 400mm f4/5.6

In conclusion, what this would give us:

Which lenses are owned by the most and least people
Which lenses are most in need of an update
Which lenses suffer most from the fact people have a third-party lens, or a manual lens
Which future lenses are most wanted
Which lenses are least liked (wish to sell+needs upgrade+used to own)
How many owners of the K10D, K200D and K20D bought a WR'ed kitlens
Which lenses would people like to see WR'ed
Which bodies are most popular
Probably some more I can't think of right now

Now, I would really appreciate some feedback. Are the choices all good, anything missing or anything that should be phrashed differently. Any more 'future lenses' that need to be on the list. Etc.

I agree with the above post. I am 95% sure that there will never be a DA L prime, just like there is no FA J prime.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by ChipB

This looks really great, but I do have a suggestion.

Some of the lenses listed (like the DA(L) 55-300) have an older Pentax equivilent(sp?) (like the DA 55-300) or the FA 50 f1.4 (F 50mm f1.4). Perhaps one of the options should list "I have an older Pentax equivilent".

I tried to cover that with 'I have a manual equivalent of this lens'. Perhaps I should replace 'manual' with 'older' indeed.

Originally posted by NaClH2O

I'm not sure how much participation you would get. Looks pretty daunting to me. I'm not sure I'd want to spend the 15 or so minutes it would take to answer that huge thing.

NaCl(definitely for the "equiment oriented" people)H2O

I tried it and it takes 5 minutes at best. Besides, photography people are nuts about these things so I guess plenty of people are willing to take their time to fill this out.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by summonbaka

If you put a DA-L version of a lens, put also an option for a non-DA-L version for it. I have the DA-L kits and I wouldn't like to associate that ones with an historically excellent 35/2 or 50/1.7 (I own both in M series and they are too damn good for a DA-L version).

And I also think it's a little too repetitive and long for a small amount of lenses. Great idea that can still get plenty of efficience.

My thinking behind that is that we already have lenses for these focal lengths (DA35mm f2.8 and DA*55mm f1.4). But, as Nikon have shown with their hugely popular plastic fantastic AF-S 35mm f1.8, there are very feasable possibilities for very cheap primes.

I'll add the Non-L versions though.

summonbaka · 05-21-2010, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers

My thinking behind that is that we already have lenses for these focal lengths (DA35mm f2.8 and DA*55mm f1.4). But, as Nikon have shown with their hugely popular plastic fantastic AF-S 35mm f1.8, there are very feasable possibilities for very cheap primes.

I'll add the Non-L versions though.

Instead of adding just another entry I would think that putting a single option, "I would like this in DA/DA-L version instead" or something like that. The lesser redundancy the better.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by summonbaka

Instead of adding just another entry I would think that putting a single option, "I would like this in DA/DA-L version instead" or something like that. The lesser redundancy the better.

I would disagree with that. Now we'll find out whether people, all else being equal, are willing to sacrifice build quality over price.

wowtip · 05-21-2010, 04:06 PM

I miss an option in between "No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it." and "No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist.".

Also, for me many lenses on the list fall into the category "No, I don't own this lens, but I would buy it if it was much cheaper"

Urkeldaedalus · 05-21-2010, 04:09 PM

Just took the survey. It wasn't perfect, but I will be very interested to see the results. Thank you for doing it.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by wowtip

I miss an option in between "No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it." and "No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist.".

I thought about this, but in the end decided that an option along the lines of 'I don't own this lens, but I kind of like it' would be rather hard to analyse. Where do you put this in your final conclusion, under 'this is a lens people really want, because they kind of like it', or under 'this lens isn't really much loved, people only kind of like it'? So in the end I decided to force people to make a choice between 'no interest' or 'wishlist'.

Quote:

Also, for me many lenses on the list fall into the category "No, I don't own this lens, but I would buy it if it was much cheaper"

Well I would certianly say that is a valid answer, I guess this goes for 90% of the people and 90% of the lenses, so that would produce rather uninteresting statistics.

pkremer · 05-21-2010, 04:16 PM

What I really want is a 70 to 200 mm f/2.8!!!

There are 3rd party lenses for this, why not a Pentax lens?

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by pkremer

What I really want is a 70 to 200 mm f/2.8!!!

There are 3rd party lenses for this, why not a Pentax lens?

I think Pentax would argue a 70-200 f2.8 is a Fullframe lens, and that their 50-135mm lens fills that spot on APS-C.

jamonation · 05-21-2010, 04:18 PM

I've filled it out, good idea.

Keep in mind though that there's an immense selection bias being built in e.g. I took the time and am interested in the results, but I'd imagine many people won't fill it out but still have strong feelings that aren't represented. Hopefully your final analysis can account for that

deadwolfbones · 05-21-2010, 04:19 PM

Filled it out. Got a blank page upon submitting, hope it went through.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by jamonation

I've filled it out, good idea.

Keep in mind though that there's an immense selection bias being built in e.g. I took the time and am interested in the results, but I'd imagine many people won't fill it out but still have strong feelings that aren't represented. Hopefully your final analysis can account for that

Please elaborate, because I'm not sure how I could account for that.

There's another selection bias in that only people who are interested enough in photography to spend time wandering around photography forums and websites will even know of this survey. Some demographics, e.g. the consumers who all bought K-x's the last few months (which should be a large group), probably aren't going to be fairly represented in the results.

kevinschoenmakers · 05-21-2010, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Filled it out. Got a blank page upon submitting, hope it went through.

Sadly google forms has a bug (if you could call it that), that when you submit the form you go to another page, scrolled all the way down. When you scroll up you should see a message 'thanks for filling this form...etc'.

In any case, if you list some of your answers I could check whether I recieved your form or not.

05-21-2010, 10:02 AM	#17
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers First, thanks for the support Adam. I was actually thinking last night it would probably look a lot better if the URL started with pentaxforums.com, rather than home.planet...etc., so yes, it would probably be a good idea if you hosted it. What do you mean by this? Furthermore, after some thinking, I decided it's probably better to leave out all the lenses that are no longer for sale right now. This will make the list considerably shorter, so it'll be less of a hassle to fill out, and less of a hassle to analyse. Instead I thought an option for ever lens that says 'I don't own this lens; I have a manual equivalent that suits me just fine', would be interesting. For example, I think the DA55 will be suffering from this. So, the revised options list would be: 1 Yes, I own this lens 2 Yes, I own this lens but want to sell it 3 Yes, I own this lens, I'd consider buying it again if it were upgraded 4 No, I don't own this lens, but I used to own this lens 5 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it 6 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it because I own a third-party equivalent of this lens 7 No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it because I own a manual equivalent of this lens 8 No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist 9 No, I don't own this lens; I'd consider buying it if it were upgraded I've added 'Yes' and 'No' so it's easier to spot which are 'own' and which are 'don't own'. The numbers will make it easer to analyse, because one can quicklier tell what the answer is. The answers, by the way, are compiled like this (click for bigger): It can be exported to Excel, and hopefully someone here knows how to work that program, because I don't. Hopefully there's a workaround to counting everything manually. What's more, we need a list of lenses for the 'if this lens were to become a reality, would you be interested in it?' part of the survey. So please, come with suggestions. What I've got so far (I've not bothered with differentiating between DA, DA and DA ltd. DAL means 'a very cheaply made lens'): DA 10-17mm f3.5-4.5 Fisheye WR DA 11-16mm f2.8 DA 12-24mm f4 WR DA 17-70mm f4 WR DA 18-105mm F4-5.6 DA 24mm f2 DA 28mm f2 DAL 35mm f2 DAL 50mm f1.7 DA 55-300mm f4-5.8 WR DA 85mm f1.4 DA 100-300mm f4-5.6 DA 135mm f1.8/2.8 DA 400mm f4/5.6 In conclusion, what this would give us: Which lenses are owned by the most and least people Which lenses are most in need of an update Which lenses suffer most from the fact people have a third-party lens, or a manual lens Which future lenses are most wanted Which lenses are least liked (wish to sell+needs upgrade+used to own) How many owners of the K10D, K200D and K20D bought a WR'ed kitlens Which lenses would people like to see WR'ed Which bodies are most popular Probably some more I can't think of right now Now, I would really appreciate some feedback. Are the choices all good, anything missing or anything that should be phrashed differently. Any more 'future lenses' that need to be on the list. Etc. I agree with the above post. I am 95% sure that there will never be a DA L prime, just like there is no FA J prime. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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05-21-2010, 09:57 AM	#16
summonbaka Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kagoshima, Japan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 237	If you put a DA-L version of a lens, put also an option for a non-DA-L version for it. I have the DA-L kits and I wouldn't like to associate that ones with an historically excellent 35/2 or 50/1.7 (I own both in M series and they are too damn good for a DA-L version). And I also think it's a little too repetitive and long for a small amount of lenses. Great idea that can still get plenty of efficience.

05-21-2010, 10:02 AM	#18
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by ChipB This looks really great, but I do have a suggestion. Some of the lenses listed (like the DA(L) 55-300) have an older Pentax equivilent(sp?) (like the DA 55-300) or the FA 50 f1.4 (F 50mm f1.4). Perhaps one of the options should list "I have an older Pentax equivilent". I tried to cover that with 'I have a manual equivalent of this lens'. Perhaps I should replace 'manual' with 'older' indeed. Originally posted by NaClH2O I'm not sure how much participation you would get. Looks pretty daunting to me. I'm not sure I'd want to spend the 15 or so minutes it would take to answer that huge thing. NaCl(definitely for the "equiment oriented" people)H2O I tried it and it takes 5 minutes at best. Besides, photography people are nuts about these things so I guess plenty of people are willing to take their time to fill this out.

05-21-2010, 10:05 AM	#19
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by summonbaka If you put a DA-L version of a lens, put also an option for a non-DA-L version for it. I have the DA-L kits and I wouldn't like to associate that ones with an historically excellent 35/2 or 50/1.7 (I own both in M series and they are too damn good for a DA-L version). And I also think it's a little too repetitive and long for a small amount of lenses. Great idea that can still get plenty of efficience. My thinking behind that is that we already have lenses for these focal lengths (DA35mm f2.8 and DA*55mm f1.4). But, as Nikon have shown with their hugely popular plastic fantastic AF-S 35mm f1.8, there are very feasable possibilities for very cheap primes. I'll add the Non-L versions though.

05-21-2010, 03:13 PM	#20
summonbaka Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kagoshima, Japan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 237	Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers My thinking behind that is that we already have lenses for these focal lengths (DA35mm f2.8 and DA*55mm f1.4). But, as Nikon have shown with their hugely popular plastic fantastic AF-S 35mm f1.8, there are very feasable possibilities for very cheap primes. I'll add the Non-L versions though. Instead of adding just another entry I would think that putting a single option, "I would like this in DA/DA-L version instead" or something like that. The lesser redundancy the better.

05-21-2010, 03:35 PM	#21
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by summonbaka Instead of adding just another entry I would think that putting a single option, "I would like this in DA/DA-L version instead" or something like that. The lesser redundancy the better. I would disagree with that. Now we'll find out whether people, all else being equal, are willing to sacrifice build quality over price.

05-21-2010, 04:06 PM	#22
wowtip Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: West coast Photos: Gallery Posts: 261	I miss an option in between "No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it." and "No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist.". Also, for me many lenses on the list fall into the category "No, I don't own this lens, but I would buy it if it was much cheaper"

05-21-2010, 04:09 PM	#23
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	Just took the survey. It wasn't perfect, but I will be very interested to see the results. Thank you for doing it.

05-21-2010, 04:10 PM	#24
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by wowtip I miss an option in between "No, I don't own this lens; I have no interest for it." and "No, I don't own this lens, but it's on my wishlist.". I thought about this, but in the end decided that an option along the lines of 'I don't own this lens, but I kind of like it' would be rather hard to analyse. Where do you put this in your final conclusion, under 'this is a lens people really want, because they kind of like it', or under 'this lens isn't really much loved, people only kind of like it'? So in the end I decided to force people to make a choice between 'no interest' or 'wishlist'. Quote: Also, for me many lenses on the list fall into the category "No, I don't own this lens, but I would buy it if it was much cheaper" Well I would certianly say that is a valid answer, I guess this goes for 90% of the people and 90% of the lenses, so that would produce rather uninteresting statistics.

05-21-2010, 04:16 PM	#25
pkremer New Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Dakota Posts: 10	What I really want is a 70 to 200 mm f/2.8!!! There are 3rd party lenses for this, why not a Pentax lens?

05-21-2010, 04:18 PM	#26
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by pkremer What I really want is a 70 to 200 mm f/2.8!!! There are 3rd party lenses for this, why not a Pentax lens? I think Pentax would argue a 70-200 f2.8 is a Fullframe lens, and that their 50-135mm lens fills that spot on APS-C.

05-21-2010, 04:18 PM	#27
jamonation Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 364	I've filled it out, good idea. Keep in mind though that there's an immense selection bias being built in e.g. I took the time and am interested in the results, but I'd imagine many people won't fill it out but still have strong feelings that aren't represented. Hopefully your final analysis can account for that

05-21-2010, 04:19 PM	#28
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Filled it out. Got a blank page upon submitting, hope it went through.

05-21-2010, 04:22 PM	#29
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by jamonation I've filled it out, good idea. Keep in mind though that there's an immense selection bias being built in e.g. I took the time and am interested in the results, but I'd imagine many people won't fill it out but still have strong feelings that aren't represented. Hopefully your final analysis can account for that Please elaborate, because I'm not sure how I could account for that. There's another selection bias in that only people who are interested enough in photography to spend time wandering around photography forums and websites will even know of this survey. Some demographics, e.g. the consumers who all bought K-x's the last few months (which should be a large group), probably aren't going to be fairly represented in the results.

05-21-2010, 04:24 PM	#30
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509 Original Poster	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Filled it out. Got a blank page upon submitting, hope it went through. Sadly google forms has a bug (if you could call it that), that when you submit the form you go to another page, scrolled all the way down. When you scroll up you should see a message 'thanks for filling this form...etc'. In any case, if you list some of your answers I could check whether I recieved your form or not.