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06-02-2010, 10:44 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
I agree it's a great lens (even if too large/heavy) and I've been on the lookout for one at a reasonable price. I guess what I'm getting at is that Pentax doesn't really have a fast wide lens in their lineup. I'm okay with crop sensors and 10mp is plenty for me, but I hope Pentax continues to look into some faster, wider lenses.

I think that the success of the FA ltd.'s and the resale values of the FA* 24/f2's should offer some insight into the demand of a fast, wide-enough-to-still-be-wide-on-a-digital angle lens.

Again, it's just my rant. I think that Pentax was definitely on the right track when they came up with the 21 pancake concept. Small, light, wide, metal-- what's not to like? Only the speed and that I can't use it on an MX body. Maybe I should have checked the "would buy if updated" box.

06-02-2010, 10:49 AM   #62
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Thanks! Very nice work...

I must say all was not as I expected, there are some surprises.

I had plans on buying the DA50-200mm WR, to go with my DA18-55 WR that I have just for bad weather shooting. However its clear most respondents are not happy with the DA50-200mm WR, its IQ probably just does not cut it for most. For sure Pentax needs to improve it. Its a nice concept, small, light, WR but something is not making owners happy with it.

The dSLRs owned is interesting. Seems a 50/50 split between the K10D and K20D. Can't say I would have predicted that. Although not surprising.

What is confusing is the FA 31mm limited. In the survey 11% of respondents own it. 42% wish they did. But a whopping 55% say its there favorite... how if only 11% own it? I may be not reading or interpreting the data correct. Really there appears to be a logic flaw in the whole favorites list...no?....

Its very apparent that weather-resistance it way up on Pentax owners criteria for a dSLR system. Also Pentax need to get on the ball and not lose sales for low cost primes. They are cheaper to design and make versus zooms and have better IQ to boot. Other manufacturers are taking advantage of this sales opportunity. But Pentax is going backwards and has artificially raised the price of primes like the FA50mm f/1.4 which should be priced at $230 (USA). Folks want faster glass, longer glass, and some cheaper primes as all others have! With primes maybe Pentax is worried it would hurt other sales, it won't. People who can afford 3 limited won't buy a cheaper prime, and people who can't afford 3 limited won't buy them, but they may a cheaper prime. Just like with the WR kits lens that are selling well. They are not advertised as dust resistant like the DA*s. Pentax stop losing sales in the board-room. Remember any whole you leave will be taken by others (ie your competition).

But we do have some nice to decent WR kit lens versus others.

Pentax do you hear/see the market, not speaking just of this survey as people have complained that we want primes as others, for both big and bigger wallets (anyone who can buy a dSLR is not poor... but most have a budget )?

Thanks and looking forward to more surveys. Lots of data to crunch... and fun.

Last edited by jamesm007; 06-02-2010 at 11:09 AM.
06-02-2010, 11:27 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greeneg Quote
I think that it would have been interesting to include what sort of 3rd party lenses people use most frequently. I have 3 Tamrons, an 18-200 which stays on the camera and is my walk-around lens, a promaster 70-300 ( also made by Tamron), and a 10-24 Tamron. This gives me a pretty fair range for travel photography. Just wonder what other people use.
I've have 3 Sigma lenses I use commonly. 18-125mm as a walk-around lens, 400mm F/5.6 APO Macro for any telephoto, and 105mm f/2.8 Macro. The only Pentax lenses I use with any regularity are the 10-17 Fisheye and the FA50 for available light indoors.
I've got quite a large gap between 125 and 400 which I'd like to fill with a DA 18-200/250 WR (SDM wouldn't hurt either, but maybe that's asking too much ).

I have a Sigma 70-300 for this range now, which I don't use often...if it's a shot closer to 300 that I need, the 400mm gets top billing since it's much better optically, but 125 is a bit short sometimes. I do barely enough shots between 125 and 250, that I feel compelled to carry the 70-300 all the time, which is 500g in my bag I would gladly do without. A WR variant (of 18-200/250) would also allow me to drop the 18-55 WR, which I carry exclusively for wet conditions (on K-7 body). The DA* lenses in this range are too expensive, and I don't require f/2.8 in a zoom lens.

The new DFA 100 WR macro is very compelling, if I didn't already have the Sigma 105 in good working condition, I'd go buy it right now.

Aside from those 2 lenses, the other ones I really want are a DA*400/f4. If it could match or beat the sharpness of the Sigma 400 f5.6 APO at wide open aperture, I'd be first in line to buy it, especially if it is <$2000 CDN.
I play with the Nikon AF-S 35mm f/1.8 at work all the time, it's a great little lens and the first I'd buy if I switched to Nikon. A DA or DA-L version would be most welcome!

Now off the topic of lenses, I work in a shop doing camera sales. The K-x is a wonderful camera which I recommend as the #1 entry-level D-SLR for image quality, but once most people find out it uses AA batteries, they are turned off it immediately.
We still stock a K20D for a very good price, but it's too bulky for the entry-level customers. A camera with the sensor and body of the K-x, Li-ion battery, and weather-sealing would sell like crazy imo. We're basically describing the K200D with a Li-ion battery, so it shouldn't be too costly to produce now. The 18-55/55-200 WR are a perfect match for this.
06-02-2010, 11:29 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Thanks! Very nice work...

I must say all was not as I expected, there are some surprises.

I had plans on buying the DA50-200mm WR, to go with my DA18-55 WR that I have just for bad weather shooting. However its clear most respondents are not happy with the DA50-200mm WR, its IQ probably just does not cut it for most. For sure Pentax needs to improve it. Its a nice concept, small, light, WR but something is not making owners happy with it.
I would suggest you look at the lens review section of these forums to get an indication of how users rate this lens. Granted, it's not Pentax's best lens, but I would say that for the money it performs way beyond its pricetag.


QuoteQuote:
What is confusing is the FA 31mm limited. In the survey 11% of respondents own it. 42% wish they did. But a whopping 55% say its there favorite... how if only 11% own it? I may be not reading or interpreting the data correct. Really there appears to be a logic flaw in the whole favorites list...no?....
The favorite percentage applies to the people who actually own the lens. So, 55% of those who own the FA31mm said it was their favorite lens.

06-02-2010, 11:46 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
I would suggest you look at the lens review section of these forums to get an indication of how users rate this lens. Granted, it's not Pentax's best lens, but I would say that for the money it performs way beyond its pricetag.



The favorite percentage applies to the people who actually own the lens. So, 55% of those who own the FA31mm said it was their favorite lens.
If I go by the survey itself and not people who write reviews (as I do) the lens is not so hot to most folks. Can't have it both ways. The survey for sure suggests for people like me who own the DA55-300mm, may very well not be pleased with the DA50-200mm WR. This coincides perfectly with pro-reviews, for the 'price' yes, but as it stands on its own...??? price was not a factor in the survey this shows its true ability compared to others. Which coincided perfectly with people wanting the DA55-300mm WR

That's not logical. Think about it. You had to take the total number owned and divide it by the amount who ranked it as their favorite using the total amount owned. But most people don't own the FA 31mm so it does not apply to them? I don't own it. My favorite it the DA55-300mm. It may have been better to calculate the favorites from the total respondents rather than ownership. Because the favorites ranking does not apply to the Pentax group as a whole. But broke it down into sub groups of ownership.

BTW statistically the FA 31mm is among about 3 or even 5 lens that people would like to own, but don't for what ever reason and given the cost of the lens people do own, its not all about price, people would like it, but just don't buy it. As the third most owned lens is the DA*50-135mm. This is very, very interesting and says a lot about what folks will really pay money for. Those folks could have gotten the FA 31mm but bought the DA*50-135mm ... interesting for sure

Again, not being a smart a great survey.

Last edited by jamesm007; 06-02-2010 at 11:59 AM.
06-02-2010, 12:36 PM   #66
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Thank you for all the time and effort - this is really fascinating

And clearly jsherman needs to redouble his efforts over at 'the 15mm controls my mind' thread, because the 15mm isn't getting nearly enough love. Pentax will never make my longed for lens - the DA10mm Limited if we can't get more people addicted to the DA15 I'm one of the minority who wants wide wide wide. I'm looking at the Sigma 8-16mm as my next purchase and if Pentax made another wide prime I'd be all over it....but it looks like wide angle just isn't that popular. I didn't expect that

Seriously though - excellent work. I found the survey results enlightening, taking it enjoyable and will definitely participate in any refinements/extensions that someone designs
06-02-2010, 12:57 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greeneg Quote
I think that it would have been interesting to include what sort of 3rd party lenses people use most frequently. I have 3 Tamrons, an 18-200 which stays on the camera and is my walk-around lens, a promaster 70-300 ( also made by Tamron), and a 10-24 Tamron. This gives me a pretty fair range for travel photography. Just wonder what other people use.
A man (we seem to be men - my wife loves her Olympus PEN E-PL1) like me, who complements their Pentax lenses - kit lens + DA 40 (I used to own a lovely bellows 100 mm Pentax, but gave that away some years back) - with a selection of Tamron lenses (as yet, the nice 10-24 & the wonderful 70-200/2.8), plus (on order) the 'little' gem from Sigma: the 150-500!

I must say that, if it (the E-PL1) had been available when I bought my K-x I might have chosen differently (its JPEG engine is amazing), but I must say I love the Tamrons .-)!

The little DA 40 is very impressive (just as the wife's Panasonic 20mm pancake for her PEN), so I hope to add a few more pancakes in the future - any suggestions?!

Last edited by Tord; 06-02-2010 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Added item
06-02-2010, 04:08 PM   #68
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I think this survey is interesting and useful in some ways but, I find it rather inconclusive and somewhat slanted. I don't mean any disrespect to Kevin and I really appreciate the huge amount of effort and work that went into doing this. But, this is something that's really hard to compile in an accurate, meaningful way. There is too many factors not taken into account. I could get really nit picky here but won't get into all that. I just want to make a couple points. One of them being how people might interpret the question being asked, and the options given to respond. A hypothetical example... Have you quit beating your wife? yes or no? Well, I could say No, and how would you interpret my answer? Do I mean No, I'm still beating her, No, I never started beating her (even though she might deserve it) No, I don't have a wife or No, She beats me. I could come up with similar examples for a yes answers, you get my drift. One of the questions was, "What's your favorite lens?" Favorite for what propose? I have the DA 55-300. Is it my favorite? No. So, does that mean I don't like it or its no good? No, its a very good lens, I like it and use it a lot. But, I use to own a Sigma f:2.8 70-200mm HSM that I just loved using more than any other lens I've owned, that would be considered my favorite lens. So, how do you consider the fact that I no longer have this lens? "Would I consider buying it again?" yes or no? Well, No. How do you interpret that answer? Without further explanation some would think since I no longer have it, and I wouldn't buy it again, it must not be a very good lens or I wasn't satisfied with it. Not so, I think it was a great lens and was very satisfied with it. OK, then why don't I still have it and wouldn't consider buying another? 1, I don't have the money right now to justify it and if I did have the money, I'd buy the 50-500mm. Some would argue, then you weren't satisfied with it. And in that respect it would be true, which brings us back to, if I had said "No, I wasn't satisfied with this lens" and you had no further information... how would you interpret my answer? See what I mean?
Again, I don't mean to be negative regarding the survey, I just think the questions have to be poised in such a way as to be precise in what information is being sought so as not to be misconstrued and room allowed for variations. Just my 2 cents for whatever its worth and sorry if I offended anyone. (or bored you to death)


06-02-2010, 05:39 PM   #69
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okay GerryL,

Of course mine is black! A colored K-x?! - now that's scary. Never entered my mind to buy a colored one - in fact I was sorry they offered the colors at all: too toy-ish for a camera with advanced features. I have yet to see a K-x in a store - let alone a "crayon version".
06-02-2010, 05:47 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by scatron Quote
There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.
LOL ... yeah, that crossed my mind at the time, but let's not go there...
06-02-2010, 06:00 PM - 1 Like   #71
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I'm not entry-level, just my 1st DSLR...

QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
Just to be clear, the remark about soccer moms and schoolgirls is by no means meant as an insult to entry-level photographers (everyone used to be one at some point). It was more irony towards people who like to laugh at the K-x because of its colors.
Funny that you still assume we're 'entry-level photographers' because we bought a 'value-priced' or 'budget DSLR' (as I've seen it described elsewhere). I was shooting film ten years before you were born.
06-02-2010, 09:15 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by KxBirds Quote
okay GerryL,

Of course mine is black! A colored K-x?! - now that's scary. Never entered my mind to buy a colored one - in fact I was sorry they offered the colors at all: too toy-ish for a camera with advanced features. I have yet to see a K-x in a store - let alone a "crayon version".
I think colored K-x's are the coolest, especially paired with a pancake lens. Great cameras don't have to be big, black, or have a battery grip. Similarly, a lens doesn't have to have a dinner-plate size front element and a 6 inch barrel to take a great shot.

When I'm at a cafe and I see someone with a color k-x, it says the owner cares more about taking great shots and having fun than the guy with the 5D MII and 28-300 zoom, who really just wants to look like a serious photographer.
06-03-2010, 10:36 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinschoenmakers Quote
Frankly, if you sell your prime for a zoom, then the prime didn't satisfy in one way or another.
No, that is bad reasoning. Some of us have limited funds to spend on lenses and need to get what we need for the job at hand. I traded in my DA35 for the DA12-24 because I was going on a trip and needed the wide angle. I still think the DA35 is an incredible lens that no-one could be dissatisfied with.

I think there were enough problems with this survey that its main benefit is to reveal shortcomings so the next one can be done better. Surveys are a complex science from what I remember of stats. Maybe someone with a background in this area could set up the next one?
06-03-2010, 11:44 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
No, that is bad reasoning. Some of us have limited funds to spend on lenses and need to get what we need for the job at hand. I traded in my DA35 for the DA12-24 because I was going on a trip and needed the wide angle. I still think the DA35 is an incredible lens that no-one could be dissatisfied with.
I never said this is what I would classify as 'dissatisfaction'. What you quoted applied to, for instance, selling a DA15 for a DA12-24. Selling a lens because you need the money for something else is something different altogether. But, as I said in the writing that went with the old version, if we assume this happens equally to every lens we can still come to a rough indication of dissatisfaction. Of course the numbers you then end up with are far from solid. For a future survey the questions should obviously be phrased differently.

QuoteQuote:
I think there were enough problems with this survey that its main benefit is to reveal shortcomings so the next one can be done better. Surveys are a complex science from what I remember of stats. Maybe someone with a background in this area could set up the next one?
Certainly this has been a lesson (hence why I included the recommendations for the future), but I think, apart from the mistakes that were made, we did discover some interesting and well-founded data. In any case, I hope that for the next survey there will be many people willing to think along with whoever is running it. I've never done anything like this before, but had to figure it all out by myself. I recieved feedback from only a few people before the survey went online.

Last edited by kevinschoenmakers; 06-03-2010 at 11:54 AM.
06-03-2010, 02:14 PM   #75
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Too bad I sold all my Pentax lenses. Now I mainly use Sigma's.
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