[Blue]

So it is a religion with you then. OK, clam down, put your mind into a rational state and consider your bias.

Thank you
Russell

Here is the alter of the church!







. . .

[KjetilH]

Blue: Be aware that the DA 17-70 may have focussing issues. As other owners have reported 'solving' the focus problems of their lenses by sliding the finger on the focus ring (thereby offering more resistance,) I susepct the lens has a 'error, which can be mistaken for other things.
My guess is that this is related to lack of resistance in the mecanism and/or lack of precision, which makes the focus unable to lock.

(I'm not trying to be hysterical, but somewhere the exposure of a problem must start, right?)

[knoxploration]

Unless it is a Toshiba and then the keep board fries 5 minutes after the warranty is up.

...or a Gateway or eMachines, in which case the LCD hinges continually become so floppy that the screen can move 2+ inches without any resistance whatsoever, or alternatively there's no slack but the case around the hinges cracks and eventually falls to pieces over a period of a few weeks. Had the exact same problem with a design that both companies shared a few years ago, and both failed within the warranty, were repaired, and both failed a second time shortly after the warranty expired.

They also both had problems with the solder joints on the power supply connector failing, and with the end of the power cord overheating and swelling alarmingly.

Then there was the NEC ultralight notebook I bought a couple of years before those for getting on for $2,000, where the DVD drive wouldn't let its region-code be set when new (and when still indicating that the code had never been set in the first place). Was like it from new, got passed up two levels of tech support before their top-tier tech agreed with me that the drive was faulty, and agreed I'd get a free replacement. It took them somewhere between six and nine months and numerous letters to execs at both their US and Japanese corporate offices before I finally got the replacement drive, and sure enough it immediately fixed the problem.

My current Acer is my fifth notebook, and only the second not to have a problem in its warranty period (even though it was a three year warranty, versus one-year warranties on all the others). It's still running fine after almost four years now, and has only recently developed a quirk where the DVD drive occasionally randomly ejects itself for no reason. Could probably get a replacement drive for fairly cheaply if it bugged me too much.

Point is, this stuff happens with *all* consumer electronics, and frequently apepars to users to be much more widespread than it really is, simply because it's so easy to find people who share your experiences on the Internet.

[Pentaxor]

...or a Gateway or eMachines, in which case the LCD hinges continually become so floppy that the screen can move 2+ inches without any resistance whatsoever, or alternatively there's no slack but the case around the hinges cracks and eventually falls to pieces over a period of a few weeks. Had the exact same problem with a design that both companies shared a few years ago, and both failed within the warranty, were repaired, and both failed a second time shortly after the warranty expired.

They also both had problems with the solder joints on the power supply connector failing, and with the end of the power cord overheating and swelling alarmingly.

Then there was the NEC ultralight notebook I bought a couple of years before those for getting on for $2,000, where the DVD drive wouldn't let its region-code be set when new (and when still indicating that the code had never been set in the first place). Was like it from new, got passed up two levels of tech support before their top-tier tech agreed with me that the drive was faulty, and agreed I'd get a free replacement. It took them somewhere between six and nine months and numerous letters to execs at both their US and Japanese corporate offices before I finally got the replacement drive, and sure enough it immediately fixed the problem.

My current Acer is my fifth notebook, and only the second not to have a problem in its warranty period (even though it was a three year warranty, versus one-year warranties on all the others). It's still running fine after almost four years now, and has only recently developed a quirk where the DVD drive occasionally randomly ejects itself for no reason. Could probably get a replacement drive for fairly cheaply if it bugged me too much.

Point is, this stuff happens with *all* consumer electronics, and frequently apepars to users to be much more widespread than it really is, simply because it's so easy to find people who share your experiences on the Internet.

mind you that the electronic examples that you mentioned are not the top 3 computer brands. brands play an important role on QA. we pay a higher premium for highend parts, warranties and services offered by the manufacturers. although not perfect and still there would be some dud, that's were warranty and costumer support comes in.

Gateway had always been non-reliable from the start.so does emachines and other unknown computer manufacturers from elsewhere (Europe, Asia, Taiwan, etc..) . NEC is not even a top end brand. and I would highly advice you not to buy an MSI brand.

[StevenVH]

I haven't read every post in this thread or elsewhere regarding SDM failures. I'm aware of the issue and agree it's a serious problem in many ways. I do think it's a batch or batches of lens that have the problem and not the lenses in general. I've had my 16-50 since @Aug 2008 and not ever had a problem. I've had the 50-135 for @6 months without issue either.

As far as laptops...blech. With a few exceptions they're all mass-produced junk.

cheers

[knoxploration]

mind you that the electronic examples that you mentioned are not the top 3 computer brands. brands play an important role on QA. we pay a higher premium for highend parts, warranties and services offered by the manufacturers. although not perfect and still there would be some dud, that's were warranty and costumer support comes in.

Brands are something I'd pay very little attention to for notebooks, at least in terms of hardware quality. Almost everybody from the big names to the nobodies sources their machines from the same handful of Taiwanese manufacturers -- last I checked these included Arima (Flextronics), Asus, Compal, ECS, FIC, Inventec, Mitec, Quanta, Uniwill, and Wistron. Together, those Taiwanese companies own the majority of the notebook market, and they make machines for the big names and the nobodies side by side in the same factories, by the same employees. Quite often even for the larger companies, the same designers were responsible for much of the internals, with the case its all placed in being made to spec to fit a standard design.

Yes, they're built to differing designs and with different quality of components, but nowhere near as much as you'd be led to expect by pricetags. The warranties and service do differ wildly, but that said, I've experienced terrible warranty and service from big name brands too. They *tend* to be better, but they're not always so.

I choose my hardware based on reviews -- albeit I generally have to go with fairly early reviews, because I choose to buy relatively early in the machines' lives.

The eMachines / Gateway notebooks were near identical, from a reference design supplied by Arima, and built by them as well. The exact same machine was available either in similar or completely different cases from a good dozen or more different brands around the world, with slight tweaks to processor, memory, etc.

Gateway had always been non-reliable from the start.so does emachines and other unknown computer manufacturers from elsewhere (Europe, Asia, Taiwan, etc..) . NEC is not even a top end brand. and I would highly advice you not to buy an MSI brand.

Beyond the hinge and power supply issues, the Gateway / eMachines notebooks are actually the most reliable I've ever owned. They were at the time reviewed by numerous sources who stated that they were the fastest notebooks they'd ever tested at the time.

They've been combined into one machine using the best parts from each, because I accidentally damaged one while repairing the power connector myself - broke a very fiddly LCD cable connector when putting everything back together. The hybrid machine has been demoted to file server duties these days and runs 24/7, and that machine runs for weeks at a time without a reboot, and hasn't been shut down entirely other than during storms for almost two years now. The hardware is all over six years old.

Last I checked, Gateway sourced their machines from Quanta, who are the world's largest notebook supplier, and also supply Acer, Apple, Fujitsu, HP, Lenovo, NEC, Sony, and Toshiba. My current notebook, I might add, is a Quanta. At the time of purchase, it ranked as the fastest notebook available for under about US$3,000 - and it cost me a little less than US$2,000. And Acer, last I checked, *were* one of the top three notebook sellers globally, incidentally.

NEC might not be a premium brand in the US market, but they're assuredly one in the Asian market. That was the one case where I went not for power, put for ultimate portability / battery life. Long before anybody ever dreamt of netbooks, my NEC could reach out as far as eleven hours with its second battery installed in the drive bay, and yet in its lightest configuration was just 2.2 pounds.

That model was at the time their flagship, and NEC are one of very few manufacturers who actually design and even manufacturer some of their machines entirely in-house. Sony can say the same, but Apple, for example cannot -- all their notebooks are made by a couple of the aforementioned Taiwanese companies.

And I've never owned an MSI notebook. ;-)

[philbaum]

So it is a religion with you then. OK, clam down, put your mind into a rational state and consider your bias.

Thank you
Russell

I wouldn't call being optimistic being religious.

A farmer is optimistic when be plants corn that he'll get a good crop. Is that a religion?

Russell, i'm very human and make tons of mistakes and many mistatements, despite my best intent to the contrary. Same thing with bias, i try to be free of them, but i don't think anyone is entirely. The best we can do is to try to minimize their effect on our behavior. But optimism is a human trait that i don't think we can live without.

What i find irritating are folks who talk like they never have biases or even consider that they might be wrong once in a while.

It feels very strange on this Pentax forum to get criticized when one says: i'm optimistic that Pentax has found and fixed the SDM lens problem with a stronger motor.

Russell - don't you want Pentax to succeed at fixing the SDM problem??

[Blue]

I wouldn't call being optimistic being religious.

A farmer is optimistic when be plants corn that he'll get a good crop. Is that a religion?

. . .

No, but farming is a lot like gambling only it takes 8-10 months to know the result whereas in Vegas you know you lost your shirt immediately. There is a reason that the average age of farmers in Florida is 57.

I think you aren't giving people a break. Pentax has pretended there isn't a problem with the SDM when the real question isn't whether there is one but how wide spread is it and have they resolved it.

[PentaxPoke]

I wouldn't call being optimistic being religious.

A farmer is optimistic when be plants corn that he'll get a good crop. Is that a religion?

Yes, it is if he had been repeatedly warned that the land he was about to plant on had been salted, and yet he planted anyway.

[Russell-Evans]

It feels very strange on this Pentax forum to get criticized when one says: i'm optimistic that Pentax has found and fixed the SDM lens problem with a stronger motor.

I think this is the most telling of all things you have said. We are talking about material things that are, or are not, by everyone's standards. Beliefs like optimism are not needed, just facts. If you can't see the reason for this, there is no explaining it to you.

Thank you
Russell

[JeffJS]

Hidden content may not be quoted

Oh, You've had the Toshiba experience Too? A 5 disk DVD changer ($500 at the time) and a flat screen Television, within one week of warranty expiration, BOTH Dead. NEVER again. Toshiba is Dead to me.