Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-05-2010, 11:37 PM   #1
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 35
bellows for macro

hello,

with this For Pentax K-PK Macro Bellows With Tripod Mount - eBay (item 130389767700 end time Jun-07-10 09:29:12 PDT)

could i do some decent macro photography with just an smc-m 50mm f2 attached

would the magnification be something like 3:1

thanks

06-06-2010, 02:53 AM   #2
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
It's hard to tell for sure, but that looks like a decent basic bellows -- in fact, it looks very much like mine! If so, maximum extension is about 140mm so you would get just under 3x magnification with your 50mm lens. It helps to use (cheap) tubes also, for more extension and more flexibility with various lenses. I haven't used your 50/2 (which should do nicely here) but many standard primes work better for macros when reversed, so consider adding a (cheap) mount-reversal ring.

Some other suggestions:

A lens that won't need reversal is the apochromatic (highly corrected) M42 Industar-50/3.5, widely available for around US$25. That pancake I-50 can be fitted to the PK bellows with a (cheap) safe flanged adapter, typically around US$5 on the bay.

Enlarger-projector lenses are also widely available, cheap. These typically have a M39-Leica mount, and so need (dirt cheap) M39-M42 adapters too. Enlarger lenses are designed for close flat-field work and are excellent for macros (and they're cheap).

Once you have a mount-reversal ring, you can use almost any lens from any maker! That's how I recycle some of the excess (cheap) Canon and other glass I obtained in various deals. Just make sure the lens has an aperture ring.

If you get a couple (cheap) sets of extension rings, you may discover the joy of stuffed optics. That's where almost any bit of optical material -- glass or plastic lenses from toys or spectacles or magnifiers, crystals, prisms, whatever -- is stuffed into the rings and mounted on the bellows. After a bit of boring serious macro work, this is FUN!

Yes, get the bellows -- it opens the door to a wide range of (cheap) perversions.

Last edited by RioRico; 06-06-2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: typos
06-06-2010, 03:40 AM   #3
Inactive Account




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ames, Iowa, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,965
I agree with everything RioRico said.

That Bellows looks like a good buy & will give you 3X or more. (just under 3x with the 50mm set at infinity, but if you extend the lens 10mm by using its focusing ring you'll be exactly at 3x.)

Magnification_change=extension_change/focal_length

I recommend you buy it and while you are at it, also buy a similarly priced focusing rail set - you'll really need it at high magnifications.
4 way Macro Shot Focusing Rail Slider for SLR DSLR DC - eBay (item 250619241015 end time Jun-20-10 00:20:49 PDT)

With those two items and your existing lens you will have a fine kit for superb macro work.
06-06-2010, 08:00 AM   #4
Senior Member
stover98074's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 153
Enlarging Lenses and Bellows

Your magnification will be a combination of bellows length and focal length used. In general, you get the most magnification when you increase bellows length and decrease focal length.

I use enlarging lenses on an old M42 bellows and have an article on the subject at this address.

Inexpensive Macro Photography

You may want to consider a bellows that has a focus rail built in to the bellows.

This is are a few examples of the same flower using an El Nikkor 80 lens from a week ago.







06-06-2010, 08:23 AM   #5
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
the only negative comment I have is that the bellows does not include the ability to slide forward and backward, by having a free sliding camera mount between the lens mount and camera mount to the bellows.

This can make placement a little tedious because with the magnification ratios you will get, coarse focus is usually achieved by moving the entire rig back and fourth, then by focusing by the knob on the lens mount of the belllows.

A while back I posted the following shot of my bellows rig.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90010-look-out...-gun-here.html

You can see that all three mounts (Lens mount at the front, tripod mount in the middle, and camera mount at the rear) are moveable on the slide rails.

If your rig does not have the center slide, then a macro focusing rail would be a great asset to the kit
06-06-2010, 05:31 PM   #6
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 35
Original Poster
wow thanks

so i just ordered a reversing ring! if I use just the 50mm reversed what would the magnification be and I assume the focusing distance would be very small??
06-06-2010, 06:30 PM   #7
Inactive Account




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ames, Iowa, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,965
QuoteOriginally posted by jeghead1 Quote
so i just ordered a reversing ring! if I use just the 50mm reversed what would the magnification be and I assume the focusing distance would be very small??
Just a reversed 50mm lens with no extra extension will not give much extra magnification (in fact, you may lose a bit).

Reversing itself is not what leads to higher magnification; magnification results from moving the lens away from the camera - it turns out that reversing a wide angle lens has has the effect of moving it away from the camera, so you get a magnification increase.

I think what RioRico was referring to regarding using a reversing ring with a bellows is that the reversing ring makes it easy to mount *any* lens regardless of manufacturer as they all use standard filter threads.

Dave
06-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #8
Inactive Account




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ames, Iowa, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,965
QuoteOriginally posted by jeghead1 Quote
so i just ordered a reversing ring! if I use just the 50mm reversed what would the magnification be and I assume the focusing distance would be very small??
Working distance (the distance from the lens plane to the subject) is *always*
W= Focal_length*(1+1/magnification)

So for a simple 50mm lens and 1:1 magnification the nominal working distance is 100mm.

Now that's not exactly the clear distance in front of the lens for a few reasons like: the lens being recessed in the lens body & the lens being complex rather than simple.


Last edited by newarts; 06-07-2010 at 05:31 AM.
06-07-2010, 04:18 PM   #9
Veteran Member
Lloydy's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 1,114
I picked up a Helios bellows very cheaply the other day, in mint condition with a Wilon 1;4.5/105 enlarging lens and a whole pile of adaptors and reversing rings, mainly PK and M42.

I haven't tried it yet, but armed with the information on this thread and the excellent looking article stover98074 linked to I'm ready to give it a try.
06-07-2010, 04:47 PM   #10
Senior Member
stover98074's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 153
Thanks

QuoteOriginally posted by Lloydy Quote
I picked up a Helios bellows very cheaply the other day, in mint condition with a Wilon 1;4.5/105 enlarging lens and a whole pile of adaptors and reversing rings, mainly PK and M42.

I haven't tried it yet, but armed with the information on this thread and the excellent looking article stover98074 linked to I'm ready to give it a try.
Thanks Llyody,

And best of luck. Today I received a Schneider Componon-s 50mm lens. Probably in the best shape of any of the lenses I use for macro.

I also have a step up filter for an EL Nikkor 80 which will allow me to try reverse mounting the lense. So two new things to try this weekend.
06-07-2010, 05:24 PM   #11
1,000,000th Poster!




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 172
I've been going through old slides with the Pentax Auto-Bellows and slide copier, it works great. It doesn't give me the quality of an expensive film scanner, but I get better results than a flatbed scanner.

After experimenting with lenses, the M50 f2 stopped down at f8 (which I believe is the lens you wish to use on your Bellows unit) was giving me ok results, but with a Helios 44-2 stopped down at f8 it really made a huge difference. I did get an M50 1.7 recently that I want to try but haven't had the time yet.

Due to the limited focusing range of the slide copier on it, some lenses didn't give me any usable results (such as the Super Tak 35 F3.5) but I will continue experimenting with more lenses. Without the slide copier it might be great.

But if later on you can get your hands on a Helios 44-2, do it.
06-08-2010, 02:08 PM   #12
Veteran Member
Lloydy's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 1,114
QuoteOriginally posted by Flickeroo Quote
I've been going through old slides with the Pentax Auto-Bellows and slide copier, it works great. It doesn't give me the quality of an expensive film scanner, but I get better results than a flatbed scanner.

After experimenting with lenses, the M50 f2 stopped down at f8 (which I believe is the lens you wish to use on your Bellows unit) was giving me ok results, but with a Helios 44-2 stopped down at f8 it really made a huge difference. I did get an M50 1.7 recently that I want to try but haven't had the time yet.

Due to the limited focusing range of the slide copier on it, some lenses didn't give me any usable results (such as the Super Tak 35 F3.5) but I will continue experimenting with more lenses. Without the slide copier it might be great.

But if later on you can get your hands on a Helios 44-2, do it.
Flickeroo, What kind of copier are you attaching to the bellows?

I'm asking because a copier was in the box of stuff with the bellows, but I never thought of using the two together. I'll have a go later on tonight maybe.

The copier is a Jessops ( store brand ) that I think is the same as the Ohnar brand that seem to be common.
06-08-2010, 07:40 PM   #13
1,000,000th Poster!




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 172
Its a Pentax Auto Bellows Slide Copier.
I attach it to the front of the Bellows unit. Then it's just a matter of playing around with the lens, camera and the slide copier to find the right setting to fill the image.
To adjust properly my focusing, what I do is I focus as best I can with the live view, then magnify it and check the corners and center using a slide that's very busy in details (and also very sharp everywhere, otherwise you're trying to focus on blur).

I also play around with the aperture of the lens (I can't do it with auto-aperture lenses, I need to be able to manually stop it down. I do have a double release cable but since my K-x can't use a release cable it's useless unless I hold it down for the lens only while I'm taking a picture with my other hand, and it just annoys me) as it affects the sharpness considerably.

I use a flash against a white wall so the light goes through the copier, but I found using a bunch of lights pointing at the wall and fixing my white balance is considerably easier, and more efficient. The previous owner had an intricate setup of using two tripods with a flash at minimum setting pointing toward the slide copier. But he was doing it with an SLR so he didn't have the range of options to compensate a DSLR user has.
06-08-2010, 11:31 PM   #14
Loyal Site Supporter
pacerr's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Henry, TN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,849
Once you go beyond 1:3 you're in a field that can only be differentiated by experience and personal preference. I personally prefer what could be called "close-up" over true macro and that can make a large (economical) difference in how you approach gear.

Just acquire a bunch of close up accessories you can afford and experiment with them them. You'll find a comfort zone for what you actually want to shoot, then you'll be able to buy refined gear suited to your own inspirations.

It'll either come to you as "this works" or you'll wish you hadn't bought it an' re-sell it.

H2
06-09-2010, 04:58 AM   #15
1,000,000th Poster!




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 172
I agree with pacerr.

Since I'm still a newby in photography, it's all about experimenting with whatever you can find.

I've seen incredible results with equipment other people would see as fit for the trash bin. But in the hands of someone with experience and imagination it can make breathtaking photography, to the point of seeing no difference between their result and others who have spent tens of thousands of dollars for fancy-schmancy modern equipment.

Of course, my lack of experience gets me nowhere near the results I've seen from people on this forum. But I'll get better.

...at least that's what I tell myself. Maybe it's just to make myself feel better that I can't afford ltd lenses...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
k-mount, macro, pentax lens, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canon ef macro - fd bellows Eric 130152 Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 6 08-31-2010 05:04 AM
Does macro photography still use bellows? justtakingpics Photographic Technique 15 04-25-2010 07:52 PM
For Sale - Sold: Everything Macro: Bellows, Ext. Tubes, Macro Lenses MikeDubU Sold Items 12 03-14-2009 07:10 PM
A macro tutorial with bellows Peter Zack Photography Articles 74 02-21-2009 12:14 PM
just got a macro bellows! timbo13 Post Your Photos! 10 08-26-2008 04:24 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:55 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top