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06-13-2010, 08:31 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
You can still reverse lenses..
I knew that >_>

06-13-2010, 10:52 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Praestigium Quote
I knew that >_>
QuoteOriginally posted by Praestigium Quote
I'm assuming my only real option of going beyond 1:1 with it is to pop on some extension tubes?
:ugh:
06-14-2010, 01:35 AM   #63
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Damn >.<

k. fine. busted.

I had just woken up and hadn't had my coffee yet
06-14-2010, 06:02 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Praestigium Quote
@Yeatzee: I plan a mixture of insects and flowers, and I already have a tripod but I've never found much opportunity to use it.

Also, I just managed to get a reasonable price on a Panagor 90mm from one of the users here.

It's a true macro lens so the Raynox won't be of much use. I'm assuming my only real option of going beyond 1:1 with it is to pop on some extension tubes?
You are lucky to get the Pangor 90. It has a fine reputation.

A Raynox 150 may* be a superb addition to the Pangor 90; with it the maximum magnification will increase from 1:1 to 3.2:1 (adding the Raynox 150 to the Pangor 90 changes the overall focal length from 90mm to 43mm).

Yeatzee is correct that a reversed lens may* work but the Raynox is so easy to use and of such quality it would be worth the small investment. If you want to try a reversed lens on the Pangor, choose a long focal length so the magnification isn't too high for practical use.

Regarding the value of a focusing rail, you'll soon find out that hand-holding at high magnifications is extremely difficult and that a little staging of situations with insects is a big help.

Many of the superb insect macros you see are of subjects that have been frozen to immobilize them for a while -- as they recover from being chilled, they move in slow motion giving you the chance to get a good composition.

Another use for focusing rail is for focus stacking; If you try to take a series of thru-focus shots by changing the focus of the lens, the magnification also changes. If you use a focusing rail to move the whole camera set-up by small increments the magnification does not change while creating the focus stack.

I think a $50 or so investment in focusing rails is well worth the extra range of possibilities it offers.

Dave

* I hedged a bit ("may" instead of "will") because sometimes Macro lenses are so deeply recessed that vignetting is a problem & I've not used the Pangor so don't know about it in particular.


Last edited by newarts; 06-14-2010 at 06:12 AM.
06-14-2010, 07:14 AM   #65
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I sometimes chill insects, and completely forget to get them out of the fridge. They're usually permanently immobilized as a result!

Yeatzee seems to be against focusing rails and is a proponent of handheld macro shots. Meanwhile, Newarts says otherwise....

I like the idea of focusing rails but is a $50 one from China the right choice? Aren't they like tripods where you can't cheap out on them at the cost of stability?
06-14-2010, 08:18 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
I sometimes chill insects, and completely forget to get them out of the fridge. They're usually permanently immobilized as a result!

Yeatzee seems to be against focusing rails and is a proponent of handheld macro shots. Meanwhile, Newarts says otherwise....

I like the idea of focusing rails but is a $50 one from China the right choice? Aren't they like tripods where you can't cheap out on them at the cost of stability?
In my experience, the Chinese focusing rails are more than sufficient: no wiggles, secure, repeatable.

The only application for which I'd want better focusing rails is for technical work where fraction of a mm accuracy is required; for such applications a machinist's precision vise or microscope stage would probably be preferable.

I'm not at all opposed to hand-held. It just gets to be very difficult at high mags... at a 1:1 mag, the depth of field is only about the f-stop/10 mms deep i.e. for an f-stop of 11 and a mag of 1:1 the depth in focus is only about 1mm.... hard to handhold!

EDIT for macros, DOF ~ (N/20)(1+1/m)/m in millimeters

Last edited by newarts; 06-14-2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Give correct equation
06-14-2010, 12:37 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
Yeatzee is correct that a reversed lens may* work but the Raynox is so easy to use and of such quality it would be worth the small investment. If you want to try a reversed lens on the Pangor, choose a long focal length so the magnification isn't too high for practical use. My sigma 105mm has a DEEPLY recessed front element and with a 50mm wideopen on the front there is no vignetting. Depending on the 28mm, there isn't much either.

Regarding the value of a focusing rail, you'll soon find out that hand-holding at high magnifications is extremely difficult and that a little staging of situations with insects is a big help. ???

Many of the superb insect macros you see are of subjects that have been frozen to immobilize them for a while -- as they recover from being chilled, they move in slow motion giving you the chance to get a good composition.
People actually do this??? Thats incredibly lame. Learn how to get close to the insects without freaking them out to get the shot, not cheat and be lazy and simply "chill" them

Another use for focusing rail is for focus stacking; If you try to take a series of thru-focus shots by changing the focus of the lens, the magnification also changes. If you use a focusing rail to move the whole camera set-up by small increments the magnification does not change while creating the focus stack.

I think a $50 or so investment in focusing rails is well worth the extra range of possibilities it offers.

Dave
Now I know why so many people suggest tripods and focus rails! Apparently a large sum of people dont work on their technique to get handheld shots at high magnification or stalk insects, but instead take their jolly time with a staged scene and a temporarily immobilized subject

QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
I sometimes chill insects, and completely forget to get them out of the fridge. They're usually permanently immobilized as a result!
Yeatzee seems to be against focusing rails and is a proponent of handheld macro shots. Meanwhile, Newarts says otherwise....
QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
I'm not at all opposed to hand-held. It just gets to be very difficult at high mags... at a 1:1 mag, the depth of field is only about the f-stop/25 mms deep i.e. for an f-stop of 11 and a mag of 1:1 the depth in focus is only about 1/2mm.... hard to handhold!
Its about practice and technique.... I got a fairly nice shot of a jumping spider at above 10:1 handheld but was not able to get a decent focus stack going so I did not post it here (DOF was way to small and the composition/angle wasn't as good as the others.). Thats why im against tripods, without them you are way more mobile and not limited in any way with some practice and proper technique.
06-14-2010, 01:10 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee:
Now I know why so many people suggest tripods and focus rails! Apparently a large sum of people dont work on their technique to get handheld shots at high magnification or stalk insects, but instead take their jolly time with a staged scene and a temporarily immobilized subject.
I'm glad you are able to do so. Many can't - including entomologists.

How do you do it with a 10:1 macro? - that's a depth of field on the order of 1/10th mm!

Congratulations!


Last edited by newarts; 06-14-2010 at 01:25 PM.
06-14-2010, 01:31 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
I'm glad you are able to do so. Many can't - including entomologists.

How do you do it with a 10:1 macro? - that's a depth of field on the order of 1/10th mm!

Congratulations!
I don't think its so much that many can't, but rather many wont. Many wont put the effort forth.

----------------------------------------------------
Patience, and good technique I guess..
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