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06-15-2010, 09:49 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Really? You can't? The EF is well adjusted for distortion while the other lens is bending the rails in a slight W shape. The resolution isn't high enough to judge sharpness.
You're absolutely right. I didn't even notice that.

06-15-2010, 10:00 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
Oh... you might click "original" to see the 10MP jpegs.
Well duh, stupid me.

Was distortion control on in the Canon? The distortion control for the EF lens is phenomenal.

The distortion in the DA lens looks like a pain to correct....
06-15-2010, 10:08 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Well duh, stupid me.
Was distortion control on in the Canon? The distortion control for the EF lens is phenomenal.
The distortion in the DA lens looks like a pain to correct....
I am not aware 40D had distortion control, so I guess the answer is no. The 10-22 is a little gem indeed.
06-15-2010, 10:17 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
The 10-22 is a little gem indeed.
A little gem, yes. Of course, excluding the saucer sized lens hood.

06-15-2010, 10:22 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by fractal Quote
A little gem, yes. Of course, excluding the saucer sized lens hood.
Indeed! Why must it be made so WIDE???
06-15-2010, 10:56 PM   #36
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Don't know what your preferences are, but I can tell you mine.

If I was buying a lens based on utility, I would get the DA 14/2.8. The faster speed and the close focus distance would make it worth it to me.

If I was buying a lens for fun and pleasure, I would get the DA 15/4.0. It is small and pretty.

The 12-24 isn't appealing to me because it doesn't focus very close, it isn't very fast, and it isn't particularly small or sexy.

Basically the same for the 10-20, although I haven't looked into that one as closely (don't love sigma myself).
06-16-2010, 12:10 AM   #37
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How you all can discuss such an issue and me reading trough it all. And of course it is important, in a way. Last year I bought the da15, I just did, never even considered any of all of your collected issues. A lens with a wider angle for my new digital pentax. And it took me into its world of its own, made me take the pictures it could offer me. One thing stands out: its capability of shots directly into the sun and then handing me magic color results, easy and correct exposures, astounding representation of atmosphere.
And then I bought the da 10-17 as I had never had a fish eye. You wouldn't want to correct it, would you ... this lens always works, as it invites you to step beside your normal observation patterns. To me it is an amazing people/land&cityscape lens. Total fun.
And if I find new money, I will ad another one, but no sigma, that is my flaw, not sigma's, just stick to pentax and I am not going to think about it very much, I trust the lens will lead me to where it can be used best.
06-16-2010, 12:34 AM   #38
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I think people can be way too stuck up when it comes to third party lenses, and i'm not just talking about Pentax folk. Canon folk are just as bad.

I have heard Sigma stands for 'SIGnificant MAlfunction', but others say it stands for 'SIGnificant MAgic'. As for the question the OP asked, I would not hesitate to buy the Sigma 10-20mm.

06-16-2010, 01:22 AM   #39
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I've just bought the DA12-24. I've used the the 16-45 before and I really loved it. Now talking about the 12-24...well the lines are straight! Much-much better than the 16-45 in this field. And sharpness at f4 is also very very good. And the lens itself is not as big as I thought-actually smaller than the 16-45. On the other hand it's very expensive as well as the Cpl filter!!!

I've seen pictures taken with the new sigma 8-16 on a D300..the perspective is impressive however generally I didn't really liked the IQ as well as the distortions.(this is personal taste of course).

Andras
06-16-2010, 01:43 AM   #40
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On film (spotmatic) m42 Carl Zeiss Flektogon 20/4. If you like huge, decent sharpness, great colors AND m42. I do. Have fun in the wonderful world of endless available old glass. Each lens has its own talent, so does its owner.
For digital I might also consider a Tamron 10-24 3.5 4.5 Di-II (If). And if you have the money, there is also modern Zeiss glass for digital pentax (18mm distagon t*), but that will be manual focus.
06-16-2010, 02:19 AM   #41
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Some pictures I promised-these are the first ones I took on the day I got the lens-nothing "artistic" just test shots:

K200d iso200 12mm f9



K200d iso640 12mm f4 (slightly cropped)



K200d iso200 12mm f9





Andras
06-16-2010, 05:28 AM   #42
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rparmar

If you are going to use lens test data to support an argument, please use relevant data.

You compare the distortion of the sigma to the pentax WA zoom, OK fine, but you quote the distortion at 24mm for the pentax, a focal length where distortion is easy to control, and a focal length that the sigma is not capable of, therefore it has no relevance to the argument.

Likewise, you quote distortion for the sigma at 10mm and compare it to the pentax distortion at 12mm, again incorrect and misleading because the pentax cannot go to 10mm.

If you are going to quote and compare the distortion figures, and to not deliberately mislead the OP who is asking for questions you need to do so at focal lengths that each lens covers, not at the extreme lengths covered by one or the other not both. Additionally, the worst case distortion figures you mention of between 2 and 3 % as worst case fugures, are in the same order of magnitude. Note that an order of magnitude is 10 times, and 2 values within 30% are within the same order of magnitude not significantly different. I won't comment on the long end figures because they are not at all related, show e the figures at 20mm for both, then we can discuss it.

With respect to distortion correction, I would like to know what software you use, because PSP X3 and its predecessors all have been able to sort out the barrel distortion of my sigma without problem, it is really quite minor, and not uncorrectable as you suggest. Additionally, if the distortion of the sigma is beyond correction, how do you expect to de-fish the fisheye?

As for the fisheye, and the fact that I don;t mention the samyang fisheye, it is not because I am blinded by sigma, clearly if this was the case I would have mentioned sigma's fisheye. I didn't omit it because I am blinded by sigma, but because the OP was asking for wide angle not fisheye. I have the samyang fisheye, it is a fun lens to use and the 180 degree FOV is wide, but I have not yet tried to de-fish it and compare 1-1 with my sigma 10-20. Perhaps I should, but somewhere experience tells me when I do this, I will probably loose the width, and be no wider in the useable portion than the 10-20. But I have another question, where did the 8mm suggestion come from, it was not in your origonal post, it seems like it was brought out in defence against my suggestion you are pushing pentax only. I commented against the lenses you mentioned nothing more nothing less.

Am I biased towards 10mm. YOU BET but when I look at my lens useage, I shoot about 20% of all my shots with the sigma 10-20, and 60% of that is at 10mm.

The extra FOV is important to me, and to a lot of other sigma owners.

As for the extra length of the pentax at 24mm, yes, I do agree that the length can occasionally help out and avoid changing lenses, but for me, when I travel for pleasure, I generally have 2 bodies, I don;t have any issue, I just switch bodies.

My normal approach is to go with the sigma 10-20 on one, and a tamron 28-75 on the other. I have not found the 8mm gap limiting, but I also have it covered with a 18-35, it's just that I used the 18-35 so infrequently when I do carry it, I have decided to leave it at home.

Overall, the OP has to answer 1 important question, and that is, what is the maximum FOV or minimum focal length he/she needs, and what is the use of the lens. That is where it starts, but from experience, my own view is that you need to plan a way to cover from about 10mm to 200 mm with 3-4 zooms with as much as practical in the F2.8 range, and then populate the middle with special use primes. This gives you much more flexibility.

I have nothing against either the pentax zoom, or other zooms in this range, including the 10-24 tamron, or the other options from sigma, but when I was in the market, I had 3 options only, the sigma 10-20 F4-5.6, the pentax 12-24 and the pentax 10-17 fisheye. From past history on film, where I had an 18mm full frame lens, and still struggled with it not being wide enough for my use, and knowing the 12-24 had the same FOV on the ASP-C sensor, I went for the sigma because it was the only option. It has been a good performer and I would surely miss the 2 mm if I had to give them up now..

I have not considered the new even wider sigma Zoom, but it also may be of interest.

As a final note. I consider Ultra wide something below 20mm Full frame equvelent, and in that case neither of the pentax primes would qualify.
06-16-2010, 06:00 AM   #43
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I recently purchased the Vivitar 19mm F3.8 (probably made by Tokina) manual focus lens with auto aperture settings. I've been hunkering for a wide angle lens forever but I got TWO 12-24mm DA lenses 2 days after so I never really got the chance to test the Viv 19mm, too bad. It seems like a decent lens in the few photos I've taken....
06-16-2010, 06:22 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxMom Felua Quote
I trust the lens will lead me to where it can be used best.
What a refreshing attitude! Any and all of these lenses discussed can lead to wonderful pictures. That is why I listed them all and refuse to say one is decisively "better" than the other. Nor will I get into further debate on an issue that has been thrashed over in thousands of posts I have read over many years.
06-16-2010, 06:23 AM   #45
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I'd get the DA 15 Ltd. or DA 14mm if I was in your shoes. I had the DA* 16-50mm. And 16mm was plenty wide for me. I couldn't see needing too much wider for what I do.

Between the Sigma and Pentax zooms, I'd most likely choose the Pentax. I really don't like Sigma lenses. I've had 2, both EXs, and neither of them impressed me. The multi-coating can't compare to Pentax's, and the colors have been bland. And to me, even on digital, color rendition is a huge issue because I hate spending time in processing photos, if I could have gotten by without it. That's just me though.
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