The best Super wide angle?

Marc Sabatella · 06-16-2010, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by hangu

Try shifting clipped reds, yellows and blues. You just can't.

OK, but no modern lens will impart such a strong color bias that this would every happen. we're talking extremely subtle differences that can only be judged subjectively- and then preference would not only depend on the person viewing, but also the scene being photographed. No modern lens is going to lead to more clipped colors than an other - only the very worst quality lenses would have such a dramatic bias.

**eccentricphotography** · 06-16-2010, 09:44 PM

I loved my DA 15/4. That being said I'd love to see how the sigma 8-16 looks on a Pentax. Personally I take the prime most times over the zoom.

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-17-2010, 03:56 AM

Originally posted by PentaxMom Felua

I trust the lens will lead me to where it can be used best.

an interesting point, and for sure something to consider for every lens in anyone's kit, BUT, if you have a specific use in mind, or a specific need shouldn't you be able to choose the lens as opposed to the lens dictating to you?

As I said earlier, I have no paticular bias towards any lens but when I go out to get a lens I start by looking at what I want fiirst. I have always maintained that any kit should be based on several zooms between 10 and 200 mm, supported by specific use primes. At this point in my kit I do not have a prime in the 14-16 mm range, I cover that with the sigma 10-20 and it suits my needs, but I am considering a prime in this range, and will probably opt for speed as the ultimate deciding point.

TOUGEFC · 06-17-2010, 04:11 AM

Speaking of third party wide angle lens. I dont hear much talk about the Tamron SP AF 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 Di II LD. Its cheaper than the sigma 10-20 here in Australia.

hangu · 06-17-2010, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

OK, but no modern lens will impart such a strong color bias that this would every happen. we're talking extremely subtle differences that can only be judged subjectively- and then preference would not only depend on the person viewing, but also the scene being photographed. No modern lens is going to lead to more clipped colors than an other - only the very worst quality lenses would have such a dramatic bias.

True, I only get clipped colors on my Super Takumars and they're old. There is some subjectivity involved but not entirely. I had an issue with the Canon 24-70L 2.8 in regard to deep saturated blues like cadmium blue and certain reds. It's not because I didn't like it, it was plain wrong. The hues and saturation were off. Yes, I could adjust it in PP but not without affecting other colors in the picture. It would have taken me at least an hour to properly mask the colors I wanted to tweak, it's just not worth it. So while no colors were clipped, color rendition was off for certain challenging colors.

MrCynical · 06-17-2010, 07:39 AM

The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited.

hangu · 06-17-2010, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by MrCynical

The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited.

The DA12-24 goes for $700 at B&H, 2 other forum members are selling their brand new DA12-24 for $600 + shipping. Just have to shop around.

JHD · 06-17-2010, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by MrCynical

The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited.

That's a very good point!

TOUGEFC · 06-17-2010, 04:10 PM

or you get get the tamron 10-24, its a little bit cheaper plus it has an extra 4mm over the sigma and its faster. And would have even more money left over for another lens.

pspentax · 06-18-2010, 02:30 AM

I have a DA14/2.8 and is a carzy lens, and i also find mine sharp even at 2.8.

Fantastic sharpness, color contrast, etc and are build like a tank

Pentaxor · 06-18-2010, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

As for the extra length of the pentax at 24mm, yes, I do agree that the length can occasionally help out and avoid changing lenses, but for me, when I travel for pleasure, I generally have 2 bodies, I don;t have any issue, I just switch bodies.

I have not considered the new even wider sigma Zoom, but it also may be of interest.

honestly Lowell, I can understand Robin's predicament. carrying two bodies at the same time could be a solution but can be a problem at the same time, especially if you want to travel light or on the go. this is an issue for me as well. this is the same reason why I can't sell my 12-24 and still having second thoughts on getting the 8-16. the 24mm is just too important for me and switching lenses in between lenses is really a bother at such focal lengths. I just wished that Sigma could push it a bit further and make it an 8-24 zoom which would make it much more versatile. I believe Sigma did this because they had the 17-50 zoom lens to cover that up. but I cant carry 2 big zooms just to accommodate certain focal lengths.

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-18-2010, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

honestly Lowell, I can understand Robin's predicament. carrying two bodies at the same time could be a solution but can be a problem at the same time, especially if you want to travel light or on the go. this is an issue for me as well. this is the same reason why I can't sell my 12-24 and still having second thoughts on getting the 8-16. the 24mm is just too important for me and switching lenses in between lenses is really a bother at such focal lengths. I just wished that Sigma could push it a bit further and make it an 8-24 zoom which would make it much more versatile. I believe Sigma did this because they had the 17-50 zoom lens to cover that up. but I cant carry 2 big zooms just to accommodate certain focal lengths.

the issue at wide angles is that high zoom ratios are very difficult to achieve, considering distortion and IQ. If you look the widest range is 2.4:1 with the tamron 10-24. sigma and pentax stick with 2:1 and there is a reason for it,

Yes an 8-24 or 8-30 woud be great, but I won't hold my breath for it.

as for travelling light, every one has a different opinion and definition of light.

When I travel usually I use a small shoulder bag, which can hold 2 lenses or one lens on a body. I have used this bag to go to prague, taking my 10-20, my 28-75 and my K135F2.5, and to paris where i took my 10-20, my 28-75 and my 85F1.4 (plus 1.7x AF TC),(my camera is in hand with the two spare lenses in my shoulder bag, along with spare batteries and memory chips)

For San Antonio, I took just my 10-20 on my K10D and the 28-75 on my *istD. One camera in hand one in the bag.

I use a different bag (back pack actually to go from point A to point B, and carry all the stuff properly, but out and about, I limit what I carry to a little shoulder bag. That is one of the issues with camera bags in general, I think every one needs 2 bags, one to gety stuff safely from A-B and one to carry a minimalist kit when you get to B. I too am interested in the new sigma lens a little, but it may make me re-think the entire range of lenses I have, or perhaps change the tammy 28-70 for something more appropriate to use along with the 8-16 if I go that route.

**Clinton** · 06-19-2010, 08:44 PM

Mostly agreed and +rep.

I'd add that the IQ of the DA15 is impressive.

The only players not here are the Tamron 10-24mm, the Sigma 8-16mm, and the Sigma 4.5mm. I enjoy my Tamron, it's IQ is good enough for me, but the Sigma at 8mm is something I'm thinking about seriously.

The Sigma 4.5mm is just silly fun to use, even with it's issues.

Originally posted by rparmar

If you need close focus, get a prime. The DA15 is rated at 18 cm and the DA14 at 17cm. Whereas the DA12-24 is 30cm.

If you need another stop of light, get the DA14. It's f/2.8 versus f/4.

If you need ultimate compactness, get the DA15.

If you need distortion-free IQ, get the DA12-24 or one of the primes.

If you need the ultimate in coverage, get a fisheye and de-fish in PP as needed.

If you need versatility, get the DA12-24. The 24mm end is very useful and may save you time swapping lenses for street shots and in other "normal" FOV situations.

If you prefer a compromise between fish-eye wide and rectilinear convenience, get the Sigma 10-20. Remember that the wide end is not distortion free, but that might not matter depending on what you shoot.

If you need to save money, get the Sigma 10-20.

06-17-2010, 04:10 PM	#54
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	or you get get the tamron 10-24, its a little bit cheaper plus it has an extra 4mm over the sigma and its faster. And would have even more money left over for another lens. Last edited by TOUGEFC; 06-17-2010 at 08:49 PM.

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06-16-2010, 10:39 AM	#46
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by hangu Try shifting clipped reds, yellows and blues. You just can't. OK, but no modern lens will impart such a strong color bias that this would every happen. we're talking extremely subtle differences that can only be judged subjectively- and then preference would not only depend on the person viewing, but also the scene being photographed. No modern lens is going to lead to more clipped colors than an other - only the very worst quality lenses would have such a dramatic bias.

06-16-2010, 09:44 PM	#47
eccentricphotography Site Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 182	I loved my DA 15/4. That being said I'd love to see how the sigma 8-16 looks on a Pentax. Personally I take the prime most times over the zoom.

06-17-2010, 03:56 AM	#48
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by PentaxMom Felua I trust the lens will lead me to where it can be used best. an interesting point, and for sure something to consider for every lens in anyone's kit, BUT, if you have a specific use in mind, or a specific need shouldn't you be able to choose the lens as opposed to the lens dictating to you? As I said earlier, I have no paticular bias towards any lens but when I go out to get a lens I start by looking at what I want fiirst. I have always maintained that any kit should be based on several zooms between 10 and 200 mm, supported by specific use primes. At this point in my kit I do not have a prime in the 14-16 mm range, I cover that with the sigma 10-20 and it suits my needs, but I am considering a prime in this range, and will probably opt for speed as the ultimate deciding point.

06-17-2010, 04:11 AM	#49
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Speaking of third party wide angle lens. I dont hear much talk about the Tamron SP AF 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 Di II LD. Its cheaper than the sigma 10-20 here in Australia.

06-17-2010, 07:34 AM	#50
hangu Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,071	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella OK, but no modern lens will impart such a strong color bias that this would every happen. we're talking extremely subtle differences that can only be judged subjectively- and then preference would not only depend on the person viewing, but also the scene being photographed. No modern lens is going to lead to more clipped colors than an other - only the very worst quality lenses would have such a dramatic bias. True, I only get clipped colors on my Super Takumars and they're old. There is some subjectivity involved but not entirely. I had an issue with the Canon 24-70L 2.8 in regard to deep saturated blues like cadmium blue and certain reds. It's not because I didn't like it, it was plain wrong. The hues and saturation were off. Yes, I could adjust it in PP but not without affecting other colors in the picture. It would have taken me at least an hour to properly mask the colors I wanted to tweak, it's just not worth it. So while no colors were clipped, color rendition was off for certain challenging colors.

06-17-2010, 07:39 AM	#51
MrCynical Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 132	The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited.

06-17-2010, 07:52 AM	#52
hangu Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,071	Originally posted by MrCynical The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited. The DA12-24 goes for $700 at B&H, 2 other forum members are selling their brand new DA12-24 for $600 + shipping. Just have to shop around.

06-17-2010, 03:31 PM	#53
JHD Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,406	Originally posted by MrCynical The Sigma 10-20: it goes wider than the 12-24, and with the £500 you save you can buy a DA Limited. That's a very good point!

06-18-2010, 02:30 AM	#55
pspentax Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 367	I have a DA14/2.8 and is a carzy lens, and i also find mine sharp even at 2.8. Fantastic sharpness, color contrast, etc and are build like a tank

06-18-2010, 01:51 PM	#56
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge As for the extra length of the pentax at 24mm, yes, I do agree that the length can occasionally help out and avoid changing lenses, but for me, when I travel for pleasure, I generally have 2 bodies, I don;t have any issue, I just switch bodies. I have not considered the new even wider sigma Zoom, but it also may be of interest. honestly Lowell, I can understand Robin's predicament. carrying two bodies at the same time could be a solution but can be a problem at the same time, especially if you want to travel light or on the go. this is an issue for me as well. this is the same reason why I can't sell my 12-24 and still having second thoughts on getting the 8-16. the 24mm is just too important for me and switching lenses in between lenses is really a bother at such focal lengths. I just wished that Sigma could push it a bit further and make it an 8-24 zoom which would make it much more versatile. I believe Sigma did this because they had the 17-50 zoom lens to cover that up. but I cant carry 2 big zooms just to accommodate certain focal lengths.

06-18-2010, 02:01 PM	#57
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Pentaxor honestly Lowell, I can understand Robin's predicament. carrying two bodies at the same time could be a solution but can be a problem at the same time, especially if you want to travel light or on the go. this is an issue for me as well. this is the same reason why I can't sell my 12-24 and still having second thoughts on getting the 8-16. the 24mm is just too important for me and switching lenses in between lenses is really a bother at such focal lengths. I just wished that Sigma could push it a bit further and make it an 8-24 zoom which would make it much more versatile. I believe Sigma did this because they had the 17-50 zoom lens to cover that up. but I cant carry 2 big zooms just to accommodate certain focal lengths. the issue at wide angles is that high zoom ratios are very difficult to achieve, considering distortion and IQ. If you look the widest range is 2.4:1 with the tamron 10-24. sigma and pentax stick with 2:1 and there is a reason for it, Yes an 8-24 or 8-30 woud be great, but I won't hold my breath for it. as for travelling light, every one has a different opinion and definition of light. When I travel usually I use a small shoulder bag, which can hold 2 lenses or one lens on a body. I have used this bag to go to prague, taking my 10-20, my 28-75 and my K135F2.5, and to paris where i took my 10-20, my 28-75 and my 85F1.4 (plus 1.7x AF TC),(my camera is in hand with the two spare lenses in my shoulder bag, along with spare batteries and memory chips) For San Antonio, I took just my 10-20 on my K10D and the 28-75 on my *istD. One camera in hand one in the bag. I use a different bag (back pack actually to go from point A to point B, and carry all the stuff properly, but out and about, I limit what I carry to a little shoulder bag. That is one of the issues with camera bags in general, I think every one needs 2 bags, one to gety stuff safely from A-B and one to carry a minimalist kit when you get to B. I too am interested in the new sigma lens a little, but it may make me re-think the entire range of lenses I have, or perhaps change the tammy 28-70 for something more appropriate to use along with the 8-16 if I go that route.

06-19-2010, 08:44 PM	#58
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,910	Mostly agreed and +rep. I'd add that the IQ of the DA15 is impressive. The only players not here are the Tamron 10-24mm, the Sigma 8-16mm, and the Sigma 4.5mm. I enjoy my Tamron, it's IQ is good enough for me, but the Sigma at 8mm is something I'm thinking about seriously. The Sigma 4.5mm is just silly fun to use, even with it's issues. Originally posted by rparmar If you need close focus, get a prime. The DA15 is rated at 18 cm and the DA14 at 17cm. Whereas the DA12-24 is 30cm. If you need another stop of light, get the DA14. It's f/2.8 versus f/4. If you need ultimate compactness, get the DA15. If you need distortion-free IQ, get the DA12-24 or one of the primes. If you need the ultimate in coverage, get a fisheye and de-fish in PP as needed. If you need versatility, get the DA12-24. The 24mm end is very useful and may save you time swapping lenses for street shots and in other "normal" FOV situations. If you prefer a compromise between fish-eye wide and rectilinear convenience, get the Sigma 10-20. Remember that the wide end is not distortion free, but that might not matter depending on what you shoot. If you need to save money, get the Sigma 10-20.