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07-07-2010, 06:33 AM   #16
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There's a reason my name is "panoguy"

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Are you really shooting panoramas with the DA 10-17? I'd like to see them.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
You say you want to do panorama shots I would not use a fisheye because youwill not be able to stitch them due to distortion, but aside from that,. panorama's should be shot in full manual not AE or with changed settings between shots as you get lines at the stitch points.


Shot with the DA10-17mm @10mm, 5-shot AEB (using AE-L), stitched into an HDR pano, then tonemapped:

http://www.mab3d.com/QTVR/MaRS_atrium.html

http://www.mab3d.com/QTVR/MaRS_2ndfloor.html

Hope you understand, Lowell - I've been doing exactly this, thousands of times, over 11 years (with fisheye lenses and HDR), so I snorted some coffee out my nose while laughing.

Also, the above panos might explain why panoramas in particular really need things like consistent AEB (then maybe HDR or exposure fusion). When you're inside looking out a window, you see detail outside, and when you "turn around" and look down a hallway you can also see detail inside. Since this particular Flash panoviewer doesn't "auto-expose" the way our eyes do, I have to map all those tones into a seamless 8-bit image. Having consistent aperture and shutter speeds for the brackets in all directions is the way to do it!

And, as a postscript, I haven't used an aperture *other than f/8* on the DA10-17mm in 2 years (and I think that last time was an accident). The native DOF is wide at most apertures, but the "sweet spot" for CA and vignetting and sharpness is f/8. No, not perfect, but easier to correct with consistent raw processing, when you're talking 35-70 images per pano.


Last edited by panoguy; 07-07-2010 at 09:24 AM.
07-07-2010, 07:05 AM   #17
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YES!

QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
Yeah, bracketing with my K-m has made me find out about that same thing. When you bracket in M mode (I don't remember other modes) for 1-stop increments it will change half a stop for speed and aperture, effectively changing the DoF. I think I get what you mean, it's a little annoying.
Yes, exactly! Oh, it is like a cool summer breeze when someone groks it!

QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
I believe that to change and de-cripple the lens could be a mechanically destructive operation...
Well, if I had a full-frame body, I'd be doing this to the lens:

Intricate panography


QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
Ok, in my first reply I didn't understand AEB (I read it as "auto exposure button" and took that to mean green button), but if you follow my instructions in it at least the K20D really does only vary the shutter speed for bracketing in M mode. (But you do have to set custom function 26 "Green button in TAv & M mode" to 2 "Tv shift", if your camera doesn't have this setting I guess you need a new camera.)


Oh, thank you drougge! That does exactly what I want (and go figure, I never imagined that "Green button" in that C-function also meant "AEB"! I wonder if that's "in the manual?")... no harm done to the lens at all.


QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
As Steinback says, the Samyang 8mm has an aperture ring. (And gives the same field of view as your DA at 10mm, with a slightly different projection.)

And if none of this gives you satisfaction, just use M mode and change the shutter speed yourself, it's not that bad.
Haven't tried the Samyang and its "interesting" projection (but hey, why not add another fisheye to add to my collection!), but it seems like your Custom Function 26 suggestion is doing what I want in "M" with the familiar 10-17mm.

And, yes, I spent years and years changing the shutter speed myself on my Canons before their firmware SDK was released. However, that remains a PITA if you are shooting brackets where *anything at all* is moving (people, clouds, etc.) and seriously increases the chance that you will move your camera or bump the tripod and get mis-registration in your brackets (also the reason for my gripe about MLU in AEB!).

So glad you also grokked the problem, and knew the (in-body) solution! I may know a lot about many things, but there is always someone who knows more.

(Now retiring to the shadows to further test this out...)
07-07-2010, 07:12 AM   #18
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I didn't realize it was the "green button" setting that affected bracketing. I think I changed that for use with non-A lenses before I started doing any bracketing with the K20D.

I know that with the way my K20D is set up, even if I never touch the green buttton, it only changes the shutter when bracketing. The K10D was a different story, that would change aperture when bracketing.

Edit: Yeah, the way MLU works when autobracketing is annoying as hell. I think it may be improved for K-7/K-x
07-07-2010, 10:40 AM   #19
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I guess by "bracketing" you are referring to some mode that messes with aperture even though you are in M mode (never used such a mode myself), but sheesh, rather than destroy a lens, why not just bracket shutter speed yourself? It's trivially simple to take as many pictures as you wan tin M mdoe without the aperture ever changing, if you never issue a command that changes aperture. Just change shutter speed directly if that's the only parameter you want to change.

07-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
And, yes, I spent years and years changing the shutter speed myself on my Canons before their firmware SDK was released. However, that remains a PITA if you are shooting brackets where *anything at all* is moving (people, clouds, etc.) and seriously increases the chance that you will move your camera or bump the tripod and get mis-registration in your brackets (also the reason for my gripe about MLU in AEB!).
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I guess by "bracketing" you are referring to some mode that messes with aperture even though you are in M mode (never used such a mode myself), but sheesh, rather than destroy a lens, why not just bracket shutter speed yourself? It's trivially simple to take as many pictures as you wan tin M mdoe without the aperture ever changing, if you never issue a command that changes aperture. Just change shutter speed directly if that's the only parameter you want to change.
Look out! There's a whole thread behind ya!
07-07-2010, 10:28 PM   #21
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Sorry, that statement was buried on page 2 - didn't see anything about it in your first several posts.

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 07-08-2010 at 11:50 AM.
07-07-2010, 11:20 PM   #22
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There's also P mode. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/30973-k10d-bracket...tml#post279266
07-08-2010, 06:10 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Sorry, that statement was buried on pag 2 - didn't see anything about it in your first several posts.
Well, now that I'm re-reading them, my first several posts are pretty bizarre!

This is the reason I don't ask many questions in these forums - not because I think I know what I'm doing, but rather because what I'm doing tends to be pretty involved and I just know eyeballs are glazing over when I explain it.

07-08-2010, 09:20 AM   #24
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I saw your panos sometime ago and that's why i didn't say anything about manually bracketing. But just out of curiosity, about how many frames do you shoot per pano? (I.E. shots=5-shot-bracket*#frames)
07-08-2010, 05:20 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
I saw your panos sometime ago and that's why i didn't say anything about manually bracketing. But just out of curiosity, about how many frames do you shoot per pano? (I.E. shots=5-shot-bracket*#frames)
Most of the time it is 35 frames (5 brackets x 6 around, +5x1 straight up), but if the floor or ground is "interesting" or difficult to clone in, then I add another 5x2 straight down (this link shows why it is 2x5, instead of just 5). So 35 or 45 frames per pano... if I'm at 10mm.

If the results of shooting at 10mm isn't enough resolution (11,500 by 6750 pixels), the great thing about the Pentax DA fisheye lens is that I can "zoom" to 17mm and shoot 5x13 images (!) and get 15,000 by 7500 pixel panoramas. But then I might go to 3 shot bracketing for sanity's sake...

So, yeah, it's a lot of frames no matter how you slice it, but I guess I could just shoot 6 around and have a hole at the top and bottom and deal with a "compromise" median exposure.
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