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07-09-2010, 08:53 AM   #16
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The Voigtländer lenses are all full-frame. For Pentax K-mount, these are:
  • Voigtländer Color-Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SL II
  • Voigtländer Ultron 40mm f/2.0 SL II
  • Voigtländer Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II
  • Voigtländer Color Heliar 75mm f/2.5 SL
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL II Close Focus
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 180mm f/4 SL Close Focus

Same for all the Carl Zeiss ZK lenses (I am pretty sure):
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 18/3.5 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 21/2.8 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 25mm f/2.8 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 28mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 50mm f/1.4 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 85mm f/1.4 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2 ZK

However, it is not always enough to say "full-frame coverage", it is also a matter of how well it does the job. The Distagon T* 25mm f/2.8, for example, has serious vignetting wide open.

07-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flickeroo Quote
I am awaiting confirmations for other lens makers, such as Voigtländer, Bower, Zeiss, Phoenix, Lensbaby, and Vivitar.
By the way, these are not manufacturers, these are brands.

The Voigtländer and Zeiss lenses I just listed are all made by Cosina, for example.
07-09-2010, 09:16 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
not a question of that was said, butwhat was not.

YOu should have said that the converse is not true, as you state in this mail.
I apologize for not just letting this go, but it seems I can't. The post you replied to (my second in this thread) did say I didn't think lack of an aperture ring meant anything. Quite explicitly.

(And the clarification shouldn't really be needed anyway. Saying everything explicitly gets ridiculous pretty quickly. "I think the K20D is a nice camera. But some other cameras are also nice. But not all cameras." (And so on.))

I'll drop it now. Really. Deep breath.
07-09-2010, 09:17 AM   #19
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Fixed OP. Modified wording errors, thank you Lowell Goudge and rparmar.

07-09-2010, 10:55 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The Voigtländer lenses are all full-frame. For Pentax K-mount, these are:
  • Voigtländer Color-Skopar 20mm f/3.5 SL II
  • Voigtländer Ultron 40mm f/2.0 SL II
  • Voigtländer Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II
  • Voigtländer Color Heliar 75mm f/2.5 SL
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL II Close Focus
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro
  • Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 180mm f/4 SL Close Focus

Same for all the Carl Zeiss ZK lenses (I am pretty sure):
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 18/3.5 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 21/2.8 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 25mm f/2.8 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 28mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 50mm f/1.4 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm f/2 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 85mm f/1.4 ZK
  • Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2 ZK
However, it is not always enough to say "full-frame coverage", it is also a matter of how well it does the job. The Distagon T* 25mm f/2.8, for example, has serious vignetting wide open.
I don't know that I want to cover lenses with partial or significant vignetting just yet. It would require an intricate measuring scale, probably similar to what Falconeye is doing with the DA and DA L lenses.
07-09-2010, 06:46 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flickeroo Quote
I don't know that I want to cover lenses with partial or significant vignetting just yet. It would require an intricate measuring scale, probably similar to what Falconeye is doing with the DA and DA L lenses.
Well, then simply say all Zeiss and Voigts are full-frame, which they are surely designed to be.
07-10-2010, 04:50 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
However, it is not always enough to say "full-frame coverage", it is also a matter of how well it does the job. The Distagon T* 25mm f/2.8, for example, has serious vignetting wide open.
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Well, then simply say all Zeiss and Voigts are full-frame, which they are surely designed to be.
You might have misunderstood what I meant.
I'm trying to find out which lenses do not have any vignetting at all at any aperture. So the Distagon you mentioned shouldn't be on this particular list, unless it's the hood that makes the vignetting.

I wish to have it mentioned in the lens review database that a lens is fully compatible with a full-frame sensor. Knowing that a lens has vignetting when it's wide open limits possibilities for shooting at a gig or any other poorly lit area. If I have a full-frame sensor and wish to purchase a lens I'd surely like to know beforehand of this limitation! It then becomes a choice depending on the purpose I intend to use this lens.

Naturally, later on we could start examining the amount of vignetting present in the lenses that are not fully compatible. If a lens has vignetting at f2.8 but it's gone by f4, it's good to know, I might work around it. If it stops having vignetting only by f11, then I might be turned off a bit, unless I shoot landscapes where I'd be fine.

I would consider a lens compatible if the only reason for vignetting is the presence of a lens hood. It's an easy fix, and does not hinder the lens owner's options.

So, do I put that all Zeiss and Voigts are fully FF compatible?

I'll follow the majority.
07-10-2010, 04:55 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
you can identify the full frame / ASP-C listing by looking in any camera magzine and the lens listings in the adds
That's why I want to do this. So that the lens review database has the information right there, and one can browse from lens to lens without searching all over the place.

07-10-2010, 05:55 AM   #24
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Rparmar made an interesting point, at least I interpret it this way.

Not all full frame film lenses had no vignetting even on film, and secondly, especially on early DSLRs some wide angle full frame lenses vignettes significantly on digital because early sensors needed the light striking the sensor closer to perpendicular than on film.

Making a list of lenses that do not vignette at all for either format may be difficult if not impossible
07-10-2010, 07:04 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flickeroo Quote
You might have misunderstood what I meant.
I'm trying to find out which lenses do not have any vignetting at all at any aperture. So the Distagon you mentioned shouldn't be on this particular list, unless it's the hood that makes the vignetting.

I wish to have it mentioned in the lens review database that a lens is fully compatible with a full-frame sensor. Knowing that a lens has vignetting when it's wide open limits possibilities for shooting at a gig or any other poorly lit area. If I have a full-frame sensor and wish to purchase a lens I'd surely like to know beforehand of this limitation! It then becomes a choice depending on the purpose I intend to use this lens.
I think you misunderstand. One of the many problems with the imprecise terminology used in photography. Vignetting means darker corners. Sometimes it means no image (completely dark), and sometimes it just means darker.

Any wide angle (or fast) lens will vignette wide open. The Pentax DA15 vignettes by more than a stop wide open (on APS-C, which it is designed for). The Distagon 25 is slightly narrower on FF than the DA15 on APS-C, but also a stop faster. Expecting no vignetting is not reasonable, and you're not going to find anything without it at those lengths.

To be perfectly clear: The Distagon is designed for full frame. It may be worse than some equivalent designs (I don't know), but if you exclude everything with "any" vignetting you're going to get a very short list. (Uselessly short.) (Or completely empty if you're strict about the "any".)
07-10-2010, 07:46 AM   #26
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I'm learning every day! I didn't know vignetting was always present on FF for short focal lengths.

I apologize for you all to be teaching me this way, but if I made this mistake there's surely others like myself out there. Some of which will surely be quite surprised if Pentax comes out with an FF sensor!

I have to change my original idea and include lenses designed for Full Frame, no matter if vignetting is present or not.

Thank you all for taking the time to explain this to me!
07-10-2010, 09:24 AM   #27
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Vignetting is present on fast or short glass on the format it's designed for, whatever that format is, and to some extent on slightly smaller formats too. (So a reasonably extreme FF lens will have some vignetting on APS-C too.)

Of course, it's often not a problem a practice.
07-10-2010, 11:56 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flickeroo Quote
You might have misunderstood what I meant.
I'm trying to find out which lenses do not have any vignetting at all at any aperture.
Almost every lens vignettes, so you will have a very short list. And in practical situations this makes no sense to make this restriction. You wouldn't even notice slight vignetting and harsher can be easily corrected with no harm. In fact, vignetting is often a desirable characteristic.

I think you need to reconsider your criteria

EDIT: Sorry, this has been covered! Stale editor page.
07-10-2010, 07:37 PM   #29
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Understood.
Criteria reconsidered and changed, OP updated.
07-13-2010, 09:43 AM   #30
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"And what about those russian lenses such as Zenitar?"

The Zenitar 16 Fisheye was made for 35mm film cameras. I've used it on film cameras too, so it is definitely FF.

I don't know of any other Zenitar lenses.
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