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07-15-2010, 02:55 PM   #31
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Well see here's another issue. There's another major brand that seems to care. They send out email polls to their warranty registered owners. They ask what the consumer wants in new gear and leave an option to make comments. Imagine that! They actually ask you if you'd like certain features or changes in future models.

But Pentax can't hide behind the cost of replacing motors. They need to come clean or these loyal customers are going to say stuff it (there are people here that have already made that choice). Sure a few people would send lenses in to have the motors that are still working replaced. A real solution would be to say to everyone the following.

"We realize that there have been sporadic reports of SDM failures that appear to be higher than industry norms for top quality lenses. To that end we have taken the following steps:
1) we've redesigned the line and all new product as of xx/xx/xxxx has the SDMII design.
2) Theses new lenses have a new serial numbering system with SDMxxxxxxxxx
3) all current owners who bought lenses with the old serial numbers will receive a limited 10 year SDM motor warranty free of charge. We will not replace motors that are currently operating correctly but if an owner who has a failed lens that has a failed motor, can send the unit to service for a free motor replacement.

Blah Blah Blah."

But so far here's what we've been told:
1)
2)
3)denial
4)
5)
6) nope
7)
8)
9) your lens is out of warranty and the bill is $253.00. Sucks to be you because we're not telling you if the new motor will work any longer than the old one. Thanks for choosing Pentax.


Last edited by Peter Zack; 07-15-2010 at 03:01 PM.
07-15-2010, 04:30 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P Quote
I agreed with the "throw away zooms" having problems, as per your previous quote I was asking how many 60-250mm, 200mm, 55mm and 300mm lenses you had seen on this forum with SDM problems.

I don't come here that often and certainly dont read every post so was wondering what proportion of those lenses are reported as faulty.

Maybe we should have the extra years warranty anyway .. we certainly seem to be paying for it.

Equivilent UK prices in $ : DA* 55m: $846, 60-250mm: $1540

On second thoughts, maybe thats why mine are all ok .. we get the good ones because we pay through the nose.
As far as the other lenses, I only recall seeing a couple for the 60-250mm. The issues I've seen over the 55 are other things and not necessarily the SDM. I don't recall a problem with the 200 and only 1 with the 300 but that may have actually ended up being a problem in the body. As far as prices go, for 55 and 60-250, the prices I saw for those in the U.S. were about the sames as your current prices. I may have gone with the 60-250 rather than the 300 based on the current prices. In January there was about a $300 difference and now they are close to the same. However, I like the size of the 300 better.
07-15-2010, 04:33 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
. . .

"We realize that there have been sporadic reports of SDM failures that appear to be higher than industry norms for top quality lenses. To that end we have taken the following steps:
1) we've redesigned the line and all new product as of xx/xx/xxxx has the SDMII design.
2) Theses new lenses have a new serial numbering system with SDMxxxxxxxxx
3) all current owners who bought lenses with the old serial numbers will receive a limited 10 year SDM motor warranty free of charge. We will not replace motors that are currently operating correctly but if an owner who has a failed lens that has a failed motor, can send the unit to service for a free motor replacement.

. . .
This is the approach that Nikon took on a sensor failure a few years back. The replaced a failed sensor in my camera 2 years after the warranty had expired under recall. I was only out shipping 1 way.
07-16-2010, 10:26 AM   #34
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Even if Pentax wanted to admit a fault with their SDM design, they couldn't do it. The financial implications would tank the company, literally. There's reports of Pentax trying to turn a profit for this next year, they have no money for a recall of this magnitude. If Pentax had the capital of a Canon, I could see it happening but at this given time, no way.

Take for instance the XBOX red ring recall, that has cost MS over a billion dollars. I know the SDM recall wouldn't get to this, but I can seeing it costing tens of millions.

As for my own SDM lenses, I've had my 50-135 since dec 08 and it's still going strong. It sits long stretches (months) without being used and it's still peforming (knock on wood).

I bought my 16-50mm used, but just returned from a SDM repair a few months ago. Hopefully it has the rumoured new motor in it. Again, that hasn't failed me yet either (knock on wood). If it does fail for that lens, I already have a little budget for the repair. It was either buy new for $900 or factory refurb for $600. If it ever does fail, then with the repair cost it'll be the same.

My $0.02.

07-16-2010, 11:00 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by nah Quote
Even if Pentax wanted to admit a fault with their SDM design, they couldn't do it. The financial implications would tank the company, literally. There's reports of Pentax trying to turn a profit for this next year, they have no money for a recall of this magnitude. If Pentax had the capital of a Canon, I could see it happening but at this given time, no way.

Take for instance the XBOX red ring recall, that has cost MS over a billion dollars. I know the SDM recall wouldn't get to this, but I can seeing it costing tens of millions.

As for my own SDM lenses, I've had my 50-135 since dec 08 and it's still going strong. It sits long stretches (months) without being used and it's still peforming (knock on wood).

I bought my 16-50mm used, but just returned from a SDM repair a few months ago. Hopefully it has the rumoured new motor in it. Again, that hasn't failed me yet either (knock on wood). If it does fail for that lens, I already have a little budget for the repair. It was either buy new for $900 or factory refurb for $600. If it ever does fail, then with the repair cost it'll be the same.

My $0.02.
How about the financial implications of people who refuse to buy one? Sooner or later, this issue is going to cause problems for the company. Every user who buys a Sigma or Tamron because they don't trust SDM is a loss. Every user who decides to stick with older MF glass because he figures that the SDM will fail and he will be stuck with a MF lens anyhow is a loss. Being a smaller company is all the more reason not ignore the problem. Setting aside money in the budget for the repair of a $900 lens that is 2 or 3 years old is unacceptable for most people.
07-16-2010, 11:15 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Setting aside money in the budget for the repair of a $900 lens that is 2 or 3 years old is unacceptable for most people.
Not only that but the risk of having it die half-way thgouth an important event that the photographer is being paid to cover.

Lots of enthusiasts use Pentax gear. Some of them want to invest in good glass. I'm far, far away from being a pro but I wanted a really nice lens. I bought a *50-135. It was a big purchase in my yearly budget for "toys" but I did it anyway. I'm crossing my fingers it lasts.

Good glass is something that should be treasured for many years, not treated like a TV that gets thrown away when it breaks. (Ok, I get my TV fixed but you get the idea).
07-16-2010, 11:50 AM   #37
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I don't have any numbers for what is posted here, but for what has been posted to DPR, I have some.

https://spreadsheets.google.com
Lens:number of issues
16-50mm: 48
50-135mm: 44
17-70mm: 9
60-250mm: 1
55mm: 0
200mm: 2
300mm: 6
Total: 110

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 07-17-2010 at 08:53 AM.
07-16-2010, 12:35 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
How about the financial implications of people who refuse to buy one? Sooner or later, this issue is going to cause problems for the company. Every user who buys a Sigma or Tamron because they don't trust SDM is a loss. Every user who decides to stick with older MF glass because he figures that the SDM will fail and he will be stuck with a MF lens anyhow is a loss. Being a smaller company is all the more reason not ignore the problem. Setting aside money in the budget for the repair of a $900 lens that is 2 or 3 years old is unacceptable for most people.
I am in agreement with you. Let's be realistic though, they're not going to do anything unless there's some sort of class action suit. We as Pentax users just don't have the numbers to shout loud enough that makes it into the public eye.

Example are iPhone 4 users that shout until there's a real response from Apple, like today.

I have thought of switching systems, but in the end my losses would be a lot greater than the $200 it will take to repair a SDM problem. What they really need to do is unlock the screw drive so if SDM fails, it's still usable. I would be happy with screw drive if SDM failed on me.

07-16-2010, 01:41 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
How about the financial implications of people who refuse to buy one? Sooner or later, this issue is going to cause problems for the company. Every user who buys a Sigma or Tamron because they don't trust SDM is a loss. Every user who decides to stick with older MF glass because he figures that the SDM will fail and he will be stuck with a MF lens anyhow is a loss. Being a smaller company is all the more reason not ignore the problem. Setting aside money in the budget for the repair of a $900 lens that is 2 or 3 years old is unacceptable for most people.
That's spot on!

It describes exactly my case (but I am an amateur) and also of one of my professional photogs Canikon friends who told me "I agree that Pentax has some strong points but I cannot afford not to trust that a pro-grade zoom would be pro-grade reliable and let me down in a heavy work period or worst, in the middle of an event"
07-16-2010, 01:55 PM   #40
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I'm not sure about the sales statistics of the 2 DA* zooms right now, but I suspect that they maybe not doing so well. this is the first time that I have more confidence with 3rd party glasses rather than the OEM lenses.
07-16-2010, 02:47 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P Quote
My point exactly.

I know it must be very annoying if your SDM lens fails (and yes I would be upset as well) but Pentax have no doubt sold many thousands of these things. You only get to hear from the people that have problems .. that's just how things are.

I am just balancing it out a little .. or is it wrong if I shout out just as loudly that my SDM lenses are working fine (have probably jinxed them now and I will be on here tomorrow morning having a right go at Pentax)

There is no doubt that there is a SDM problem with certain lenses but it seems based around the 16-50mm and 50-135mm more than the rest .. the few failures I have seen from the other models could easily be put down to normal failure rates.

As for age, my 16-50mm is a couple of years old, and the rest were all bought approx 12-18 months ago (apart from the 55mm and if the SDM failed on that I probably wouldn't even notice as the focusing is that slow).
Mike, thanks for speaking up.

I have 2 SDM lenses in excess of 1 year, AND THEY BOTH WORK GREAT

DA 50-135
DA 300

benjikan, in a post about 2 months back reported that he sent his 2 SDM lenses, still working, in for the upgraded motor. He also said that Pentax knew all about the SDM issue. When he got the SDM lenses back, he reported that they focused faster than before.

I think one of the real issues here, is why the French repair center can successfully install the new upgraded SDM motor and the American repair operation, is that CRIS, can't repair it right.

Finally, why is name calling, a classic playground bullying tactic, such as pentaxpoke calling others "fanboys" ok? That kind of behavior is extremely rude. I'm surprised that Zack let that pass by.
07-16-2010, 03:34 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Mike, thanks for speaking up.

I have 2 SDM lenses in excess of 1 year, AND THEY BOTH WORK GREAT

DA 50-135
DA 300

benjikan, in a post about 2 months back reported that he sent his 2 SDM lenses, still working, in for the upgraded motor. He also said that Pentax knew all about the SDM issue. When he got the SDM lenses back, he reported that they focused faster than before.

I think one of the real issues here, is why the French repair center can successfully install the new upgraded SDM motor and the American repair operation, is that CRIS, can't repair it right.

Finally, why is name calling, a classic playground bullying tactic, such as pentaxpoke calling others "fanboys" ok? That kind of behavior is extremely rude. I'm surprised that Zack let that pass by.
PentaxPoke didn't call anybody a FanBoy, is why it wasn't an issue. I have 2 sdm lenses and haven't had any issues (1 for 7 months and 1 for less than 2). However, on the 300, as I said before I got a Mack Warranty for it. I gambled on the 17-70 since I got it for $399.

I agree with you regarding why does CRIS repairs seem to have a very high of re-failure rates. Perhaps Corporate sent all of the remaining early version motors to CRIS. I don't know for sure where Peter Zack's lenses were repaired.
07-16-2010, 04:03 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote

Finally, why is name calling, a classic playground bullying tactic, such as pentaxpoke calling others "fanboys" ok? That kind of behavior is extremely rude. I'm surprised that Zack let that pass by.
I don't think that it is bullying at all. I can understand the frustrations of others that have experienced such SDM failures and definitely having a "WHAT SDM FAILURE?" for a signature doesn't help either and can be interpreted as something rude as well. honestly speaking, the SDM issue is not just matter of opinion but rather real. and having such personal signature is more likely a gesture of trying to ridicule others or cause reactions. you don't expect to get away with sayin' "N****R" while in the company of african-americans. so if I were that person, I would just remove that signature. end of story.
07-16-2010, 04:48 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Finally, why is name calling, a classic playground bullying tactic, such as pentaxpoke calling others "fanboys" ok? That kind of behavior is extremely rude. I'm surprised that Zack let that pass by.
You can't be serious. You are either confusing me with someone else, or deliberately making this up. I typed the word "fanboy" in post 7 of this thread when I said lets have some fun, and made a top 10 list joke: "The official Top 10 fanboy excuses why SDM failure is all in your mind." Here is the link:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1104220-post7.html

So who am I "bullying" or being extremely rude to? Pentaxor is absolutely right. Phil, I don't seem to recall you getting so self rightious when there were people in this forum openly mocking those that claimed to have SDM failure.

Be careful about throwing around false accusations, and hints to "Zack" of banning. What is it that you are afraid of?

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 07-16-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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