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07-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #16
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Actually, I took the smaller one shooting yesterday for the first time, and I have to say it is much more convenient, than using a bigger one.

07-19-2010, 06:56 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Crazy Fedya Quote
Actually, I took the smaller one shooting yesterday for the first time, and I have to say it is much more convenient, than using a bigger one.
I think the v.1 is rarer, so I would keep that one.
07-19-2010, 06:58 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Are you aware of the big front element version of the Super Tak 35mm/2?
I have this one.
07-19-2010, 07:03 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by B Grace Quote
I have the big version of the 28/3.5. From what I've read on the subject, which isn't much as I haven't found a lot of info available, the later small front element version of the lens is just an adaptation of the earlier lens so I doubt there would be a vast difference in image quality. To be honest, I'm curious if the big front element version was sized so it could use the same hood as the 24mm lens as that is what I use with mine. I doubt it's true but who knows.

I find the shots I take with my 28/3.5 to be a bit soft at times and they have a blue color cast to them which I can easily correct with a custom WB. In terms of the softness, my lens looks to be in perfect condition but it might have been dropped at some point during the past 47 years. The elements appear to be clean.

I paid $8 for mine at a camera show (it would be mint if the painted numbers weren't faded a bit) so a person could skip coffee for a couple of days and justify hanging on to it. The hood was more expensive than the lens.
One of the reason for the large front element on some of the first models of the Super Tak wide angle lenses was to manage optical vignetting. The S.T. 35mm/2 had a honking front element that was even larger than the Auto-Tak 35 mm/2.3. Pentax got away from the big elements because of cost and tradition of building as compact of lenses as possible for a given focal length. When Pentax went from the large element 35/2 to the smaller ones, there was more changes in the formula than with the 28mm/3.5. The had already been messing with the 35mm/3.5 lenses longer so the only thing to tell the 1st version of the ST 35mm/3.5 is the 3.5-22 aperture diaphragm.

07-19-2010, 07:03 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ddhytz Quote
I have this one.
Those are cool looking lenses. bigthumbsup
07-19-2010, 07:06 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Crazy Fedya Quote
Initially, I thought I have too much equipment, so I would sell some of it to fund purchase of different one, if it makes any sense. But now I am trying to come up with reason for myself not to sell it, even though I have purchased something else.
If you suspect you have too much gear, you probably do.
07-19-2010, 09:43 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
One of the reason for the large front element on some of the first models of the Super Tak wide angle lenses was to manage optical vignetting. The S.T. 35mm/2 had a honking front element that was even larger than the Auto-Tak 35 mm/2.3. Pentax got away from the big elements because of cost and tradition of building as compact of lenses as possible for a given focal length. When Pentax went from the large element 35/2 to the smaller ones, there was more changes in the formula than with the 28mm/3.5. The had already been messing with the 35mm/3.5 lenses longer so the only thing to tell the 1st version of the ST 35mm/3.5 is the 3.5-22 aperture diaphragm.

In my ever expanding quest to derail threads, I'd like to ask if there are actually any benefits to having the uber large front elements of the 35/2. I've always assumed (probably wrongly) that the first edition 35/2 had superior optics but inferior coating to the later SMC 35/2. How off am I here?

I had a first edition 35/2 with a huge front element, it looked beautiful on my Pentax Kx but I ended up selling it....
07-19-2010, 10:43 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
One of the reason for the large front element on some of the first models of the Super Tak wide angle lenses was to manage optical vignetting. ...
Hi Blue, can you point to the source of that info please? I think the size difference is due to optical formula requirements, or possibly to make up for light loss of un-coated element(s). Thanks!

07-20-2010, 08:10 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by rhodopsin Quote
Hi Blue, can you point to the source of that info please? I think the size difference is due to optical formula requirements, or possibly to make up for light loss of un-coated element(s). Thanks!
The only problem with your coating theory is that the early and late models of the Super Tak 28/3.5 which tak 58mm threads had the same coatings as the second model of the Super Tak 28/3.5 which takes 49mm filter threads. The same thing is true with the S.T. 35/2 with the 70mm filter threads and the S.T. 35/2 with the 49 threads that replaced it.

The model 1 (early and late) S.T. 28/3.5 had 6/7 arrangement and the model 2 had a 7/7. The S.T. 35/2 model 1 however had a 7/7 arrangement just like the 2nd model of the S.T. 35/2 but the front element was a lot smaller.

The 49mm filter thread models of the S.T. 28/3.5 and S.T. 35/2 are optically the same as the S-M-C models except for the coatings. The aperture mechanism is also different.

As I said earlier, Pentax was constantly pursuing more compact lenses. They also in several examples got away from certain elements when possible due to costs whether it was these big elements or cemented triple element groups. That said, Pentax has used large front elements in some lens designs even after the S-M-C and SMC coatings came out in 1971. The coatings were for improved light transmission, flare etc. whereas the big elements were for optical vignetting and perhaps natural vignetting (aka light falloff).

Here is an article on the 3 basic types of vignetting.

http://toothwalker.org/optics/vignetting.html

This is towards the end of the section on optical vignetting (bellow the cats eye description).

QuoteQuote:
Optical vignetting tends to be stronger in wideangle lenses and large aperture lenses, but the effect can be noticed with most photographic lenses. Zoom lenses are often saddled with a fair amount of optical vignetting. Oversized front or rear elements help to reduce this type of vignetting and are frequently applied in wideangle lens designs. At any rate, the given speed of a lens always refers to the on-axis case; the full aperture for off-axis objects is smaller.
07-20-2010, 08:16 AM   #25
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Set up your dSLR on a tripod, ideally, pointing to nice complex scene, infinity focus. Shoot a series with each lens, at different apertures, and compare the results (and jpeg sizes). If you see a difference significant to you, keep the one that is better and sell the other.

Repeat a couple of times, with different subject/focus (though minor focus differences can affect the results quite a bit).

If you still don't have a favorite, and the size factor isn't a factor, and you still want to sell one, check prices & sell the one that will bring more money.
07-20-2010, 08:17 AM   #26
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Crazyfedya,

Shoot some Christmas type lights with both models of the S.T. 28 wide open to see how those aperture circles look. In theory, these models should have different bokeh literally by design.
07-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #27
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Nesster and Blue:
Thanks for a great advice, but my K10D took my wife and my dughter to Europe till September, so I only have a half-dozen of film cameras, but I will try to do this with B&W film.
07-22-2010, 08:16 PM   #28
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Over all, I prefer smaller Takumars, but since I got 35mm f/2 I don't mind if they are a little longer. I think it's my rangefinders having "bad" influence.
07-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #29
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Here is the optical layout of Model 1 and Model 2.

Model 1



Model 2




The Model 1 layout reminds me of the Meyer Orestegon 29mm/2.8

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