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08-01-2010, 11:43 PM   #16
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I was never really that happy with the kitlens regardless whether if it's ver. I, II, or WR. I mean sure it could produce some good results. but good results are not enough for my taste. even at f8, I find the results quite underwhelming. as a short zoom lens, I find it a struggle to use at 18mm-22mm for wide shots and shorthanded for lowlight shots where flash and high ISO is not recommended.

I'm sure JB won't have a problem with it using a k-x or K20D with some post-processing help. but personally, there is just something about the results that I find unappealing. there are just certain things that I noticed that aren't great even with post-processing help. it would take too much workflow or several steps and time inorder to produce what one might be looking for. and for me, time is gold. I'm not into extensive graphics enhancements.

08-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaieger Quote
...Good point. My wallet has accepted its impending doom.
I'm sure you'll like the 16-45.
One quirk about the lens that may become evident for you in your street shots is that the barrel extends in the short end of the focal range - so it's longest at 16mm, which can make your shooting less inconspicuous...
08-02-2010, 03:42 AM   #18
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For street shooting you will generally want a 24mm or 28mm prime that you can use between f/4 and f/8, set to hyperfocal distance and shoot from the hip. For this I use a couple of Vivitar manual focus lenses. These correspond exactly to the classic film 35mm and normal fields of view.

The lens that will most expand your range of photographic possibilities is a fast 50.

And after that, the DA12-24mm for wide angle. At the 24mm end it is also great for street.

That said, the DA16-45 is an excellent inexpensive substitute for the kit lens. But some never notice the IQ improvements since they simply are not that discerning.

EDIT: Sorry, that last phrase sounds like an insult but is not meant to be. Looked at another way, all of us happy with APS-C are not that discerning!

Last edited by rparmar; 08-02-2010 at 03:10 PM.
08-02-2010, 12:31 PM   #19
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Hmm, your argument about the lack of difdference betwee nthe 16-45 and kit is convincing. I did take a few test shots just earlier comparing the differences - while I do notice that the colors from the kit lens are a bit bland, it isn't massive. That said, it was shot at some random stuff on my book shelf from a pretty close difference, not really indicative of wide-angle street work performance (or candids in the 100mm's case).

What about the Tamron 17-50mm? It's not too much more expensive at $414 after rebate at B&H

08-02-2010, 12:47 PM   #20
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Have you considered the Sigma 17-70? A little wider, more reach, HSM, onboard IS, $450. Or as the poster above recommended, a fast 50 is fun. I picked up a Pentax-A SMC 50mm 1.7 in great shape for $70 on ebay. I also got a nice Sigma 28mm 2.8 manual focus that is prety shap and a lot easier to focus than the 50mm. I'd go with a fast 50 first. Lots of fun (but focus can be a bit trying at times). I bought an "A" version that has automatic aperture but I think the build quality of the "M" version is better but you will have to use the stop-down metering which is a bit of a pain in the butt sometimes.
08-02-2010, 01:28 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by future_retro Quote
I'm returning that Sigma in my signature and investing in a DA 15 LTD + DA 40 LTD combo specifically as a replacement for it.
Excellent choice. Those two are my main and favorite lenses.
08-02-2010, 05:46 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
But some never notice the IQ improvements since they simply are not that discerning.

EDIT: Sorry, that last phrase sounds like an insult but is not meant to be. Looked at another way, all of us happy with APS-C are not that discerning!
Reasons for shooting digital, not film: 1) shooting is free; 2) digital editing; 3) don't like darkrooms; 4) don't know any better (haven't tried the alternatives)

IMHO complaining that an image straight-from-the-sensor is bland, is absurd. Settings and images can and should be tweaked. ALL digital imagery is PP'd, more or less. This isn't Kodachrome, with its narrow latitude and lack of PP opportunities. Those who don't want to do PP should stick to 'chrome, avoiding temptation.

Let's see, my US$1k Lil'Bigma 170-500 sometimes delivers shots that aren't as vivid as I want. Should I: 1) buy a new lens; 2 switch to Leica; 3) shoop?

And I have a comment for those who complain about softness or distortion at the margins of a frame: If viewers notice small edge defects, then the photographer has failed to grab eyeballs with a compelling, well-lit, well-composed subject. Shot correctly, the edges just don't f*cking matter.

The lens does not make the picture. The camera does not make the picture. The photographer makes the picture. "It's a poor craftperson who blames their tools."
08-02-2010, 05:56 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Reasons for shooting digital, not film: 1) shooting is free; 2) digital editing; 3) don't like darkrooms; 4) don't know any better (haven't tried the alternatives)

IMHO complaining that an image straight-from-the-sensor is bland, is absurd. Settings and images can and should be tweaked. ALL digital imagery is PP'd, more or less. This isn't Kodachrome, with its narrow latitude and lack of PP opportunities. Those who don't want to do PP should stick to 'chrome, avoiding temptation.

Let's see, my US$1k Lil'Bigma 170-500 sometimes delivers shots that aren't as vivid as I want. Should I: 1) buy a new lens; 2 switch to Leica; 3) shoop?

And I have a comment for those who complain about softness or distortion at the margins of a frame: If viewers notice small edge defects, then the photographer has failed to grab eyeballs with a compelling, well-lit, well-composed subject. Shot correctly, the edges just don't f*cking matter.

The lens does not make the picture. The camera does not make the picture. The photographer makes the picture. "It's a poor craftperson who blames their tools."
This is an excellent piece of lit

Even my DA*s with their commendable contrast and color capabilities still don't always produce the vibrant colors I'm looking for. Photoshop is a gift from God, not a tool of the devil.

08-02-2010, 06:11 PM   #24
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Rio, I have no idea what your rant had to do with what I wrote, since I said nothing about film vs. digital, unprocessed images or anything else. Saying that edges "just don't f*cking matter" is dead wrong, not to mention impolite. Rather depends on what you are shooting doesn't it? I have a whole series of walls and fences, which was one good reason to improve IQ with a DA16-45. The old saw about "The lens does not make the picture" is also pretty lame. Knowing how to choose the right tool for a job is part of being a good technician or artist.
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