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08-14-2010, 12:54 PM   #46
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Well, here is an example of something I think was "unfair" - I had entered my high bid for about a hundred dollars over the current price on an item. In the last hour, someone else bid about 20 times in small increments, until finally he/she exceeded my high bid. He/she than canceled that bid, leaving me the high bidder at my maximum price. Of course, with a few seconds to go a third party exceeded both of us.

Now, you can say that I still would have got it within my maximum price, so all's fair, right? And as it turns out, I didn't have to spend any money. But, were all those incremental bids REALLY genuine attempts to win it? Or was someone driving the price up? I could almost believe the former, if the last bid hadn't been cancelled. And maybe the sniper (with whom I have no issue) wouldn't have beat me if the price hadn't been driven up. But who knows, that's the 'bay.

08-14-2010, 01:00 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nick Siebers Quote
Well, here is an example of something I think was "unfair" - I had entered my high bid for about a hundred dollars over the current price on an item. In the last hour, someone else bid about 20 times in small increments, until finally he/she exceeded my high bid. He/she than canceled that bid, leaving me the high bidder at my maximum price. Of course, with a few seconds to go a third party exceeded both of us.
That's exactly why I very recently started using a sniping program for ebay auctions, as opposed to just putting my maximum bid in ahead of time. By placing my maximum bid at the last possible second, I don't give anyone the opportunity to do exactly what you described above.
08-14-2010, 01:09 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
So when you say "North Americans", you mean "continental United States citizens". You know that the largest part of North America is outside of "CONUS", right?
Polar bears don't have much use for photographic gear. Besides, ebay won't let them join due to problems verifying their bank accounts.
08-14-2010, 01:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Yes, that was awesome... thanks for reminding me.

It still sucks though. That was the one little candle light in the black whole that is my experiences with ebay bids
That was a pretty big candle.

Violin



08-14-2010, 01:15 PM   #50
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I've had pretty good luck lately on e-bay. In fact, I just picked up a Super-Tak 35/2.0 (the 67mm version). I put in a max bid of $75 about an hour before the close of bidding and went to bed. Woke up next morning figuring I would be outbid only to find out someone else matched my bid but never exceeded it. Just got the lens today (what a beauty) and, weather permitting, I'm planning on trying it out tomorrow.

Interesting yeatzee, that the person I bought it from was in Temecula.

CW
08-14-2010, 01:18 PM   #51
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honestly, it's not even bidding anymore technically speaking. I would say that just put the maximum price that you are willing to pay for the item or how much it is worth to you from the start. even if you lose by a dollar, that shouldn't matter. that just means there are other people that are willing to pay that amount or even more. they are paying for it as well as much as you do. I mean regardless if it's cheap and was won cheap, you did entered the cheaper amount that you are willing to pay for it right?
08-15-2010, 12:59 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
That's exactly why I very recently started using a sniping program for ebay auctions, as opposed to just putting my maximum bid in ahead of time. By placing my maximum bid at the last possible second, I don't give anyone the opportunity to do exactly what you described above.
Although sniping fixes shill bidding during the auction, Ebay still lets people get away with dubious practices. I believe some sellers snipe their own auctions (still shill bidding, just at the last second). For example, with these sniping accounts, its possible to set up a second Ebay account to snipe on your own auctions, effectively providing a free price reserve. This is hard for Ebay to track, as the snipe comes in from the sniping service website IP. At the moment, this is very easy to spot, as delays on the sniping services mean that the sniping shill bidders only get one shot, so they pick likely losing prices, rounding down under psychologial levels like round numbers, for instance bidding GBP 48. Its only a matter of time until they get smarter and bid incrementally several times in the last 5 seconds.
08-15-2010, 03:49 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
That's exactly why I very recently started using a sniping program for ebay auctions, as opposed to just putting my maximum bid in ahead of time. By placing my maximum bid at the last possible second, I don't give anyone the opportunity to do exactly what you described above.
QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
Although sniping fixes shill bidding during the auction, Ebay still lets people get away with dubious practices. I believe some sellers snipe their own auctions (still shill bidding, just at the last second). For example, with these sniping accounts, its possible to set up a second Ebay account to snipe on your own auctions, effectively providing a free price reserve. This is hard for Ebay to track, as the snipe comes in from the sniping service website IP. At the moment, this is very easy to spot, as delays on the sniping services mean that the sniping shill bidders only get one shot, so they pick likely losing prices, rounding down under psychologial levels like round numbers, for instance bidding GBP 48. Its only a matter of time until they get smarter and bid incrementally several times in the last 5 seconds.
You're right that it certainly doesn't elimitnate all the issues with ebay. Sellers could certainly snipe their own auctions from a second account without too much trouble, and as you pointed out, essentially set up a free reserve price. In this case, however, they won't have time to cancel their incremental high bid, leaving you the winner at an artifically high bid. They will likely have to resort to giving you a "second chance offer" when the highest bid (their own from the 2nd account) decides "not to pay". At that point you have to decide whether you've been taken and whether you want to pay a price that was techincally less than you were willing to pay but still more than you should have had to pay if it were a "fair" auction.

08-15-2010, 04:09 AM   #54
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All I can say is I'll bid what I want to pay and if the item goes over, whether by schill bids or snipers, I'm beyond caring and have yet to accept a second offer.
08-15-2010, 04:15 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by xjjohnno Quote
All I can say is I'll bid what I want to pay and if the item goes over, whether by schill bids or snipers, I'm beyond caring and have yet to accept a second offer.
Which is an understandable position as you're still not spending more than what you were willing pay. However, you're still paying more than you would have had to pay for the item had the seller been acting ethically.
08-15-2010, 07:45 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
In this case, however, they won't have time to cancel their incremental high bid, leaving you the winner at an artifically high bid. They will likely have to resort to giving you a "second chance offer" when the highest bid (their own from the 2nd account) decides "not to pay". At that point you have to decide whether you've been taken and whether you want to pay a price that was techincally less than you were willing to pay but still more than you should have had to pay if it were a "fair" auction.
Shill-sniping works most effectively when the seller shill bids to a little less than a sensible level, like an idea of fair value, such as a recent average, or little less than the highest recent price. If they win at the slightly less than that price, they won't offer you a second chance offer. The more pernicious shill sniper is the one that does not get identified as such, apart from the key characterisitic of deducting the minimum incremental bid amount away from the psychological levels, ie 0.95, 4.80, 14.50, 59.00, 148.00. If you see these numbers just beneath your snipe, someone may or may not have supported their auction with a sniped shill. I would not do this, and don't condone it, but it guarantees you get fair value for what you are selling, or you get to keep it for what the advert would have cost with a reserve.

One problem they have is that selling the same item again will look dubious, so they will need various sellers accounts. I know that various sellers use several accounts, as I recently bought a 28mm 3.5 lens from one on a buy it now auction. To pay for it, partially, I sold my 28 f2.8...to a different guy, but then when I went to Paypal to create the mailing address, it was the very same bloke who had sold me the 28mm f3.5. I'm not saying this bloke is dishonest, but holding various Ebay accounts to disguise multiple buying and selling definitely happens. Thinking about it, this particular chap does not show the front of his lenses in his auctions to prevent himself from being identified.

Last edited by whojammyflip; 08-15-2010 at 08:06 AM.
08-15-2010, 08:18 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
Shill-sniping works most effectively when the seller shill bids to a little less than a sensible level, like an idea of fair value, such as a recent average, or little less than the highest recent price. If they win at the slightly less than that price, they won't offer you a second chance offer. The more pernicious shill sniper is the one that does not get identified as such, apart from the key characterisitic of deducting the minimum incremental bid amount away from the psychological levels, ie 0.95, 4.80, 14.50, 59.00, 148.00. If you see these numbers just beneath your snipe, someone may or may not have supported their auction with a sniped shill. I would not do this, and don't condone it, but it guarantees you get fair value for what you are selling, or you get to keep it for what the advert would have cost with a reserve.

One problem they have is that selling the same item again will look dubious, so they will need various sellers accounts. I know that various sellers use several accounts, as I recently bought a 28mm 3.5 lens from one on a buy it now auction. To pay for it, partially, I sold my 28 f2.8...to a different guy, but then when I went to Paypal to create the mailing address, it was the very same bloke who had sold me the 28mm f2.8. I'm not saying this bloke is dishonest, but holding various Ebay accounts to disguise multiple buying and selling definitely happens. Thinking about it, this particular chap does not show the front of his lenses in his auctions to prevent himself from being identified.
Conspiracy theories abound! Happens in every ebay is crap thread. Everyone is a dishonest seller trying to rape the bidder out of as much money as possible. Another way to get what you want for an item is to flat out ask for it in the opening bid. Who cares how many IDs they have? Ebay allows at least two. I have two.. So what? Why do I have two? Bing (microsoft) cashback. When I maxed out the reward count on one in a given year, I could use the other account to get more rewards. Now that the program has ended, I use one for buying and the other for selling.

If you suspect you've been price-jacked by a shill bidder, don't pay for the item and report it to ebay. What is the seller going to do? Leave negative feedback? Woops, Can't do that anymore. Don't want to pay more than something is worth? Don't place a bid where you could be driven to that price.

08-15-2010, 09:52 AM   #58
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I have almost 5 years experience dealing on Ebay, both as a seller and buyer. To buy successfully on Bay, one has to do a lot of homework.

A few basic rules about buying:

1. The seller's rating, listing & selling polices.
A seller may have a no-return policy, but Ebay now has a Buyer Protection Policy. It actually works, I have used it before, but one will lose shipping charges both ways. Still, at least you can recover some $.

2. If a deal is too good to be true, it probably is.

3. Some sellers will list items at very low prices with inflated shipping charges. Stay away.

4. Remember that many sellers have phantom bidders to bid againt real buyers raise the final price of an item. Do not be guided by one's passion to own "the item" and keeps raising one's bid for an item. You will more than likely paid more than its real value when you finally win it.

5. Verify the specs and (perviced) value of the item. Most of the time, one can get info on a product online. A product can have several versions with big variations in value.

6. Check for consistency of the value of items previously sold by the seller. E.g. If the price range of items previously sold by a seller is <$300 and suddenly list an item or several items for >$1000, be careful that it may be an attempt to make a killing and then close the account.

7. Many companies also sell on Ebay. Without naming names, a company can list an item simultanously on its company website, Ebay and Amazon - all with different selling prices. So check before buying.

Btw, regarding buying lenses on Ebay:

1. A used lens cannot be perfect - sometime, even new ones have problems.
2. A lens, if in storage for a couple of years, may have problems like fungus and oil on the plates, dust inside the lens (especially on lens that zooms out & in during useage) and scratches on the glass elements.
3. A used lens may have loose parts like focus ring and zooming rings. Lens creep in zoom lens may be a problem with older lens.
4. What's perfect and excellent to one may not apply to someone else standards.

I hope these few tips will help those looking to buy on Ebay.

There are many good sellers on Ebay, one just have to be careful (and sometimes lucky) in selecting who to buy from.

Just my 2 cents.
08-15-2010, 10:11 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nick Siebers Quote
Well, here is an example of something I think was "unfair" - I had entered my high bid for about a hundred dollars over the current price on an item. In the last hour, someone else bid about 20 times in small increments, until finally he/she exceeded my high bid. He/she than canceled that bid, leaving me the high bidder at my maximum price. Of course, with a few seconds to go a third party exceeded both of us.

Now, you can say that I still would have got it within my maximum price, so all's fair, right? And as it turns out, I didn't have to spend any money. But, were all those incremental bids REALLY genuine attempts to win it? Or was someone driving the price up? I could almost believe the former, if the last bid hadn't been cancelled. And maybe the sniper (with whom I have no issue) wouldn't have beat me if the price hadn't been driven up. But who knows, that's the 'bay.
You can cancel an active bid before the end of auction?...I did not know that. How did you figure that out? In bid history?

Last edited by EyeSpy; 08-15-2010 at 10:12 AM. Reason: more ???
08-15-2010, 10:29 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by EyeSpy Quote
You can cancel an active bid before the end of auction?...I did not know that. How did you figure that out? In bid history?
I have had similar things happen to me on about 3 occasions. What happened is I got offered a 2nd chance offer within a day and a half of the end date. The problem is that it was always for my last bid, but if the winner hadn't bid, my high bid would have actually have been about half that. I walked every time.
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