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08-15-2010, 11:36 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
If you suspect you've been price-jacked by a shill bidder, don't pay for the item and report it to ebay. What is the seller going to do? Leave negative feedback? Woops, Can't do that anymore. Don't want to pay more than something is worth? Don't place a bid where you could be driven to that price.
Jeff, I think you are missing the point. I'm not saying Ebay is a bad place and all sellers are bad, or that there is a conspiracy going on. Its just a simple trick I've seen happen. I don't condone it either, as its not in the spirit of things. The seller will be fine with taking the item back into their inventory to resell it again.

Why would the seller want to complain to Ebay? It would just raise Ebay's attention to odd auction price history patterns. The point of the shill bidding to a reserve price is so a seller can keep the item if no one will buy it at the seller's perceived fair value.

It would be short sighted for a seller to just bid like Topsy on his own auction to try to max out the price. Ebay would detect it sooner or later and the seller would get banned.

As mentioned before, the problem is that you are guaranteed to not get a bargain when a seller does this.

Thanks for the information on setting up a second Ebay account, thats one to bear in mind if I get around to buying and trying more lenses as I think it helps to sell things out of a different account to the one used for buying. Previously though, I was refering to the practice of attempting to sell the same kit from different Ebay accounts after shilling results in an item not being sold.


Last edited by whojammyflip; 08-15-2010 at 11:47 AM.
08-15-2010, 11:45 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
You've missed my point.
Hah, that sounds mighty familiar.

Ebay is what it is. It's not perfect but it is useful. You learn to look out for yourself. It's not any different from the rest of the internet. You use the tools that are available to you (sniping sites, PP buyer protection) and the seller uses whatever is available to him/her (reserved prices and shills). Shill bidding is wrong but one can argue that sniping is wrong as well. Buyers are trying to get a great price on something and the seller wants to make as much money as possible. Something has to give once in a while.

I just put in a max bid on a sniping site and call it a day. If someone beats me by a penny, then too bad, I should have bid higher.
08-15-2010, 11:50 AM   #63
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I didn't say the Seller should complain in the case of a possible price-jack shill, but the bidder. I agree the seller wouldn't want it or want to report it. If proven (or admitted) it would cost the seller his account.

Even though I quoted your post, it wasn't necassarily yours I was referring to with 'conspiracy theories abound'. These threads always go the same way. A person opens the thread stating he's missed/lost an auction. Somebody invariably comes along and starts complaining how 'unfair' it is that someone can come in at the last few seconds and win. Then it goes to how dishonest sellers are in that A, they would allow that to happen or B, would Want that to happen. Somewhere in there are always the Ebay Sucks crowd, sellers are all thieves, a two minute automatic extension should be given to all auctions, etc.

I've been using ebay for 12 years. In all that time I've paid more than I wanted for an item exactly ZERO times. I've come up across a truly dishonest seller exactly One time. He was reported and his account was closed (it takes 3 such reports to shut one down, or did then). Instead of doing that, people come to these forums and piss and moan about how they got cheated because their price was driven to their bid maximum. Puh-leeze. Don't want to pay the price, don't place the bid. Simple. These threads are Always the same.

08-15-2010, 12:06 PM   #64
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Sure, I just thought some people might benefit from knowing that they can pull out in circumstances which "don't pass the smell test", and they suspect that a reserve shill snipe has been placed, as it does happen. Its just caveat emptor as usual.

I am in complete agreement that Ebay is very useful. Sniping is just part of the game which makes shopping for stuff on Ebay much easier. I just group lenses into a sniper, and then forget about them until I receive an email regarding the end of the auction. If it looks like something funny has been going on, I just don't pay. Same goes for when I am selling something, if the winning bidder looks like trouble, I just cancel the sale and relist and apply for the refund of the final value fee. I've not had many instances of this happening, and when it does, the other party is a busy Ebayer and drops the issue to pursue something else, rather than having a dragged out problem revealing their dodginess to Ebay overseers.

08-15-2010, 12:40 PM   #65
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if ebay doesn't work for you, there is always your PF marketplace and local craigslist. you can add adorama and keh to that list as well. saves you a lot of trouble.


No Sniping, No Shill Bidding, No Disputes, No Crap.
08-15-2010, 03:54 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Polar bears don't have much use for photographic gear. Besides, ebay won't let them join due to problems verifying their bank accounts.
I’d be more worried about another Canadian creature that goes by the name of “Justin B.”

“Celine” has already infiltrated American culture and paved the way for master “Justin” to take over. How dangerous is young “Justin”, think of that kid named Damien in the first Omen movie as a teenager.

How do you stop “Justin” before it’s too late? Get your tweens to stop downloading his music and sending him twitter messages.

You’ve been warned,

Phil.
08-15-2010, 04:14 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
I’d be more worried about another Canadian creature that goes by the name of “Justin B.”

“Celine” has already infiltrated American culture and paved the way for master “Justin” to take over. How dangerous is young “Justin”, think of that kid named Damien in the first Omen movie as a teenager.

How do you stop “Justin” before it’s too late? Get your tweens to stop downloading his music and sending him twitter messages.

You’ve been warned,

Phil.
With one of these



08-17-2010, 02:53 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote

Than the whole fiasco with the K 200mm F/2.5, where it was ending while I was driving. I attempted to win it on a cell phone which took 2+min. to load the bid page... except for when I was finally ready to attempt to "snipe" meaning there was 2 min. for people to incrementally attempt to beat my bid

And the list goes on and on

Am I the only one with these "ebay woes"?
Well, I've never tried to snipe with a cell phone! I did try once with a Mac somewhere (I'm NOT a Mac person!), and got stymied. Sniping at home, with my full arsenal (-snicker-) is more my style. YMMV, and good luck!

PS If you really want an item and can't be there to attempt to snipe it you can try the tactic of bidding what you wouldn't mind paying for it and hope. There's not much else you can do. Even when sniping, you really have no other sensible option.


Last edited by Muse; 08-17-2010 at 03:11 AM.
08-17-2010, 10:25 AM   #69
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Wow, lost of responses!

Well as a turn of fate, I just won a Pentax F 135mm F/2.8 for $354 Now apparently, thats a good deal Thanks to this thread, I attempted to use "GIXEN" and it worked flawlessly.... I actually kind of felt bad for the guy I won it over

So FA 35mm F/2 at $280 vs. F 135mm F/2.8 at $354..... well both great deals and I'm exstatic to have won one I would have much rather purchased the much more rare F 135mm than the very common FA 35mm anyways so its all good
08-17-2010, 11:28 AM   #70
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I actually got "sniped" on a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 by another Pentaxforums member

I was cool about it and was happy to see it go to a nice young and enthusiastic photographer (He was a high school student I believe)

This was back in 2007 when there were no new 70-200mm f/2.8s available for Pentax. I ended up buying the Pentax 50-135 which I was happy with, so all's well that ends well.
08-17-2010, 12:09 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if ebay doesn't work for you, there is always your PF marketplace and local craigslist. you can add adorama and keh to that list as well. saves you a lot of trouble.


No Sniping, No Shill Bidding, No Disputes, No Crap.
And I will add no offers with "no returns accepted."
08-17-2010, 12:11 PM   #72
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I had a bid on a Carl Zeiss 50mm just now, $40, top bidder. Some guy out bid me in the last three seconds =C
08-17-2010, 12:16 PM   #73
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And then there is the other problem, which is minimum bids which are more than what one can buy the item for from a full service used retailer, like KEH or Adorama. There was an auction for an M 24/2.8 in that classification which ended yesterday. No bids.
08-17-2010, 01:15 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Wow, lost of responses!

Well as a turn of fate, I just won a Pentax F 135mm F/2.8 for $354 Now apparently, thats a good deal Thanks to this thread, I attempted to use "GIXEN" and it worked flawlessly.... I actually kind of felt bad for the guy I won it over

So FA 35mm F/2 at $280 vs. F 135mm F/2.8 at $354..... well both great deals and I'm exstatic to have won one I would have much rather purchased the much more rare F 135mm than the very common FA 35mm anyways so its all good
glad you got yourself a copy. post some pics when you get the lens. I mean photos that are taken by the lens, not photos of the lens itself.
08-17-2010, 02:03 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Ugh! Congratz to whoever snaked that FA 35mm F/2 in like new condition for $280BIN I was the first to see it (1 AM) and was just getting it set up to buy it when the 5th viewer bought it right from under me :ugh:

Than the whole fiasco with the K 200mm F/2.5, where it was ending while I was driving. I attempted to win it on a cell phone which took 2+min. to load the bid page... except for when I was finally ready to attempt to "snipe" meaning there was 2 min. for people to incrementally attempt to beat my bid

And the list goes on and on

Am I the only one with these "ebay woes"?
What???? An FA 35mm F/2 in like new condition for $280BIN. that is a great price.
I guest I should be checking Ebay instead of sleeping and getting ready for work.
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