Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-22-2010, 02:56 AM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ita/swiss
Posts: 270
LBA?..Lens?.. need help!! Pls.

Hello everyone,

I apologize now if I'm wrong section, move it where the moderator sees fit.
I apologize if I write in two languages, one of mine.
But I want the post to be clear and understandable.

As I posted several months ago, send in a lens with the Italian postal service, for a distance of 50Km.
I used the service in 24 hours. Insured. + The package arrived after 48 hours.
empty! My Pentax A * 135 disappeared .

Just bought in perfect condition. From a professional photographer.

I swear that the lens was like new! Never seen one so beautiful.

In my country / state, there is a mentality very different, more closed than the U.S..
What you call LBA, we do not exists, is an imported brand, and who does not know, here are one thing.
A mentally ill person, someone who throws money, a hallucinating maniac etc. ....

Understanding zero

I say this because it is true, because the postal service refuses to refund the lost lens.

This is due to factors:
The postal service has taken me documents that I have provided in order to be paid.
These include the sales contract and a letter from me explaining the damage that I had won.
Yes immense damage, others that have lost a unique thing for me, as if I lost a part of my family.
Huge waste of time, personal journey to see the lens, etc. ...

As I said I do not repay, because according to them I could not send an object like that with this service.
They challenged the contract of sale, the lens Star, I wrote together with the seller, and highlighted that I wrote
"Lens very rare and valuable."
then by my letter of complaint, I wrote: "I spent € 2,300 for a single lens, which completed my collection of lens star."

The Courier says: "with the service 24 hours, not that can be shipped, he admitted, objects of art, collectors, artists, paintings, jewelry, etc. .."

Given these items, we can not refund.

But go#@#@#@##]][+*§*§§*#@#


Another thing, when I went to send the package, the employee asked me what it contained and what value it had, so I explained, and wrote on the receipt in plain sight, stuck on the parcel,
It contains "art glass pentax 135 *"

Only after I have stolen me say that an object of art, unique and well collector could not even be sent !!?!?!!!


In September I will go to court to sue.


Now I kindly ask your help, how can I prove that my lens is not an object collector??

Leica lenses on ebay or seen with the word "collectibles", never on the Pentax, as the courts understand it?

Many thanks to all and sorry for a post so long, and noise.

Thank you all.






Buongiorno a tutti,

mi scuso, subito se ho sbagliato la sezione, che il moderatore la sposti dove ritiene giusto.
Mi scuso se scrivo in due lingue, una la mia.
Ma voglio che il post sia chiaro e ben comprensibile.

Come ho già postato diversi mesi fà, nel spedire una lente con il servizio di poste italiane, per un tratto di 50Km.
Ho usato il servizio in 24ore. Assicurato. Il pacco è arrivato dopo + di 48 ore.
vuoto!! Il mio Pentax A* 135 sparito.

Appena comprato in condizioni perfette. Da un fotografo professionista.

Posso giurare che la lente era PAri al nuovo !!! MAi vista una così bella.

Nel mio paese/stato, esiste una mentalità molto differente, più chiusa , che negli USA.
Quello che voi chiamate LBA, da noi non esite, è un marchio importato, e per chi non lo conosce, qui sei solo una cosa.
Un malato di mente, uno che butta soldi, un maniaco allucinato ecc....

Comprensione pari a Zero

Dico questo perchè è vero, e perchè il servizio postale si rifiuta di rimborsarmi la lente persa.

Questo fatto è dovuto a dei fattori:
Il servizio postale mi ha richiesto dei documenti che io ho fornito, al fine di essere pagato.
Tra questi il contratto di vendita e una mia lettera in cui spiegavo il danno che mi avevano procurato.
Sì danno immenso, altre ad aver perso una cosa unica per mè, come se avessi perso una parte della mia famiglia.
Ingente tempo perso, viaggio personale per visionare la lente ecc...

Come dicevo non mi rimborsano, perchè secondo loro non potevo spedire un'oggetto come quello con tale servizio.
Hanno impugnato il contratto di vendita, della lente Star, che scrissi assieme al venditore, ed evidenziato la voce che scrissi
" lente molto rare, e , di grande valore ".
poi dalla mia lettera di lamentele, scrissi : " ho speso 2.300€ per una lente unica, che completava la mia collezioni di lenti star".

Il corriere, dice : " con il servizio 24 ore, non sono spedibili , ne ammessi, oggetti : d'arte, da collezionismo, artistici, quadri, gioielli ecc.."

Dato tali voci, noi non possiamo rimborsarvi.

Ma andate @#@#@#@##]][+*§*§§*#@#@


Altra cosa, quando andai a spedire il pacco, il loro dipendente mi chiese cosa conteneva e che valore avesse, pertanto lo spiegai, e scrissi sulla ricevuta in bella vista, incollata sul pacco,
Contine : " vetro artistico pentax 135*"

Solo dopo che me lo hanno rubato mi dicono che un'oggetto d'arte, unico e pure da collezionismo non poteva neppure essere spedito !!?!?!!!


A settembre andrò in tribunale a fare causa.


Ora chiedo gentilmente il Vostro aiuto, come posso dimostrare che la mia lente non è un'oggetto da collezionismo???

Su ebay o visto lenti Leica, con la scritta " collezionismo", mai sulle Pentax, come farlo capire al giudice??

grazie molte a tutti e scusate per un post così lungo, e noiso.

Grazie a tutti voi .

08-22-2010, 03:29 AM   #2
Veteran Member
pcarfan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,958
You may need the help of an attorney on these matters. I am not one, and I have no experience in such legal matters. I will give you my novice, inexperienced advice based on how I see this. But, using logic in a court of law may or may not work

First, I would want to get the exact definition of a 'collectible' item as the court defines it. Then show evidence as to the contrary.

If a collectible is anything that is not produced any more, then your lens unfortuantely is a collectible. But, by every other ways it is not. If it is the former, you have to go with the argument of why the person who accepted your parcel didn't advice you on this.

If they are calling your lens a collectible due to it's price then show a price list of lenses in current production (may be the Sony Zeiss 135/1.8) to show the market price.

Also, show them the photographs you have taken and possibly the ones taken with the 135 and show it is actually been put to use and not staying inside a glass cabinet like a collectible.

Having said that, all these suggestion have a chance of causing more harm to your defence than help as I simply don't know how the legal system works, so TIFWIW (may be even less than that )

Last edited by pcarfan; 08-22-2010 at 04:55 AM.
08-22-2010, 05:53 AM   #3
Site Supporter
Douglas_of_Sweden's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Stockholm
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,348
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.
Certainly I would be very pissed if I lost my A*135.
In my mind it is not a collectible if you was using it, so maybe it can help if you show that you were indeed using it. But I'm not a lawyer.
08-22-2010, 08:21 AM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 499
Perhaps I am way off in my thinking here, but I do not think I would state it is a collectable to a court of law - although this certainly is a classic. Something that is collectable isn't something most people expect to be used daily. They expect it to be on display.

This is a very valuable tool used in the completion of either work or hobby. If a craftsman had a valuable tool stolen, would not that be considered for compensation in a court of law? How is your beautiful lens different than that?

Just my 2c.

08-22-2010, 09:07 AM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 482
I'd go and see an attorney. They will tell you what you need. Probably you'd need an expert to testify or certify that the lens value is that you claim.
08-22-2010, 10:31 AM   #6
Senior Member
bigdog104's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South Carolina
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 289
Another "Non-Attorney" here but I would think that if they let you buy insurance then they are agreeing to pay out the insurance if it doesn't arrive. There might be some limit to how much they will pay you but I would think they owe you something. Good luck.
08-22-2010, 10:49 AM   #7
Loyal Site Supporter
pacerr's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Henry, TN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,884
Define the lens as a tool, perhaps an expensive, precision tool, but one used by workers every day to produce the competent and expected work of a craftsman. Find every day examples of expensive tools normally shipped by that service.

For example, a fine musical instrument or a tool used by a violin-maker is not a work of art or a "collectible" item in itself although it may be expensive.

H2
08-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NYC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,071
I'd be very surprised if the Italian postal service lets you buy insurance for ~2600 Euros. I think we can only get up to $600 in insurance via the US postal service.

I've heard some awful, awful things about the Italian postal service. This is just another nail in the coffin. I would never send/receive anything from Italy unless it were shipped/insured by a reputable third party.

08-22-2010, 11:12 AM   #9
Site Supporter
Douglas_of_Sweden's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Stockholm
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,348
I thought all the strange stories about the Italian postal service was sort of urban myths, but there may some truth behind it.
08-22-2010, 11:25 AM   #10
Site Supporter
Clinton's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,825
I don't know it would be wise to call the lens a collectable. I would instead refer to the lens as simply expensive. Show the two presently for sale on ebay, and i'd show the last couple that went for auction on ebay. The one I bought for 1625 and the last one for 1650.

I would try to stick to the monetary value for replacing the lens right now, which is probably that one for 2200 that's listed right now.

It's not unusual for very high quality professional glass to sell for this much money, and for even more new.

Lastly, if it was me, I would put up refund info in whatever the italy craigslist, or classified listings are noting a $500 reward no questions asked.

Hope all this helps!

Clint
08-22-2010, 11:53 AM   #11
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NYC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,071
QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I thought all the strange stories about the Italian postal service was sort of urban myths, but there may some truth behind it.
It's not an urban myth. The Italian post service is notoriously slow. International shipping takes up to 1-2 months at times. Absolutely unheard of for a first world country in the European Union. I know I can ship things to third world countries in Africa and Asia in a more timely manner. I have friends in the travel industry that will plan far ahead for Italian destinations. Apparently, the more south you go, the more delayed things are.

The worst part is the items that "mysteriously" disappear. It's fairly evident that a post office employee opened the package after seeing the high insurance/declaration value, stole the content and then sealed the box so that it'd make it to its destination. I've never heard of anything like this about USPS, Fedex or even UPS, yet stories like this about the Italian postal service abound.

Just check some Ebay listings. Lots of sellers will either warn of slow shipping to Italy or refuse to ship there altogether. I don't blame them. Italy and China (Nigeria too!) are two countries that I refuse to deal with on Ebay.
08-22-2010, 12:07 PM   #12
Inactive Account




Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,485
I don't know how LBA translates to the Italian postal workers but here, it simply means, lens buying addiction and if I remember correctly was a term coined specifically to buying 50mm lenses. The one time I sent anything to Italy, it did arrive but took over a month to clear customs.

It's kind of hindsight at this point but for a distance of 50km, I would have hand delivered it.

As for shipping to China, I or rather the buyers may have been lucky but typical transit time, door to door priority mail, is 2 weeks unless the buyer asks (and pays) for EMS. To date, all packages have successfully completed the journey. The same with the rest of Asia.

08-22-2010, 12:46 PM   #13
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ita/swiss
Posts: 270
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
You may need the help of an attorney on these matters. I am not one, and I have no experience in such legal matters. I will give you my novice, inexperienced advice based on how I see this. But, using logic in a court of law may or may not work

First, I would want to get the exact definition of a 'collectible' item as the court defines it. Then show evidence as to the contrary.

If a collectible is anything that is not produced any more, then your lens unfortuantely is a collectible. But, by every other ways it is not. If it is the former, you have to go with the argument of why the person who accepted your parcel didn't advice you on this.

If they are calling your lens a collectible due to it's price then show a price list of lenses in current production (may be the Sony Zeiss 135/1.8) to show the market price.

Also, show them the photographs you have taken and possibly the ones taken with the 135 and show it is actually been put to use and not staying inside a glass cabinet like a collectible.

Having said that, all these suggestion have a chance of causing more harm to your defence than help as I simply don't know how the legal system works, so TIFWIW (may be even less than that )
QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.
Certainly I would be very pissed if I lost my A*135.
In my mind it is not a collectible if you was using it, so maybe it can help if you show that you were indeed using it. But I'm not a lawyer.
QuoteOriginally posted by opiet70 Quote
Perhaps I am way off in my thinking here, but I do not think I would state it is a collectable to a court of law - although this certainly is a classic. Something that is collectable isn't something most people expect to be used daily. They expect it to be on display.

This is a very valuable tool used in the completion of either work or hobby. If a craftsman had a valuable tool stolen, would not that be considered for compensation in a court of law? How is your beautiful lens different than that?

Just my 2c.
QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
I'd go and see an attorney. They will tell you what you need. Probably you'd need an expert to testify or certify that the lens value is that you claim.
QuoteOriginally posted by bigdog104 Quote
Another "Non-Attorney" here but I would think that if they let you buy insurance then they are agreeing to pay out the insurance if it doesn't arrive. There might be some limit to how much they will pay you but I would think they owe you something. Good luck.

Thanks for the kind responses,

You are all very polite, very cordial and supportive.

Yes, I will use a Lawyer, but your questions and answers, gave me important suggestions.

I will use in my defense.

thanks a lot.
08-22-2010, 12:55 PM   #14
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ita/swiss
Posts: 270
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
I don't know it would be wise to call the lens a collectable. I would instead refer to the lens as simply expensive. Show the two presently for sale on ebay, and i'd show the last couple that went for auction on ebay. The one I bought for 1625 and the last one for 1650.

I would try to stick to the monetary value for replacing the lens right now, which is probably that one for 2200 that's listed right now.

It's not unusual for very high quality professional glass to sell for this much money, and for even more new.

Lastly, if it was me, I would put up refund info in whatever the italy craigslist, or classified listings are noting a $500 reward no questions asked.

Hope all this helps!

Clint
with tasks even this is a good idea.
08-22-2010, 01:11 PM   #15
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ita/swiss
Posts: 270
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
I'd be very surprised if the Italian postal service lets you buy insurance for ~2600 Euros. I think we can only get up to $600 in insurance via the US postal service.

I've heard some awful, awful things about the Italian postal service. This is just another nail in the coffin. I would never send/receive anything from Italy unless it were shipped/insured by a reputable third party.
QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I thought all the strange stories about the Italian postal service was sort of urban myths, but there may some truth behind it.
QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
It's not an urban myth. The Italian post service is notoriously slow. International shipping takes up to 1-2 months at times. Absolutely unheard of for a first world country in the European Union. I know I can ship things to third world countries in Africa and Asia in a more timely manner. I have friends in the travel industry that will plan far ahead for Italian destinations. Apparently, the more south you go, the more delayed things are.

The worst part is the items that "mysteriously" disappear. It's fairly evident that a post office employee opened the package after seeing the high insurance/declaration value, stole the content and then sealed the box so that it'd make it to its destination. I've never heard of anything like this about USPS, Fedex or even UPS, yet stories like this about the Italian postal service abound.

Just check some Ebay listings. Lots of sellers will either warn of slow shipping to Italy or refuse to ship there altogether. I don't blame them. Italy and China (Nigeria too!) are two countries that I refuse to deal with on Ebay.
QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
I don't know how LBA translates to the Italian postal workers but here, it simply means, lens buying addiction and if I remember correctly was a term coined specifically to buying 50mm lenses. The one time I sent anything to Italy, it did arrive but took over a month to clear customs.

It's kind of hindsight at this point but for a distance of 50km, I would have hand delivered it.

As for shipping to China, I or rather the buyers may have been lucky but typical transit time, door to door priority mail, is 2 weeks unless the buyer asks (and pays) for EMS. To date, all packages have successfully completed the journey. The same with the rest of Asia.

The Italian Post Office, will support the SDA.
The packages are insured up to 3,000 €

Never had problems with UPS, FedEx.
I received four packages from the U.S., shipped via USPS, always perfect and arrived on time.
Received three from Japan, an IIA, never a problem here, because the customs at home, not traveling with the Italian post office courier.

Other members of the forum Pentax Italy have lost their parcels with the post office.
Many things are stolen.

Think that my package has been opened along the sides and even closed, the carrier tried to deliver it well, altered.

Thank you all again
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
che, di, k-mount, lens, lente, mi, mia, pentax, pentax lens, service, slr lens, una
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pls.... A* or fa* ?? bollicina31 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 13 11-30-2009 01:13 PM
Urgent help pls bollicina31 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 6 10-06-2009 09:07 AM
Pls help with choosing the right lens odessit Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 8 08-07-2008 07:58 PM
Sigma lens help pls Bokeh Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 04-24-2008 11:58 AM
2.8 lens and AF540FGZ flash Pls Advise ggad Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 2 02-14-2008 11:14 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:45 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top