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09-04-2010, 06:03 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Impartial Quote
No, on a K-x the 20mm is merely wide. But if you are into manual focus lenses, an M 20/4 is certainly the budget option for a wide prime . . . because of the crop factor, that is the toughest niche to fill in old glass, IME.
Unfortunately "toughest niche" and "budget option" don't go hand in hand...
- So that is way I probably have to go for a different strategy: auto focus zoom

09-04-2010, 06:48 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Unfortunately "toughest niche" and "budget option" don't go hand in hand...
- So that is way I probably have to go for a different strategy: auto focus zoom
The 16-45mm is extra wide, extra good and extra affordable (for an extra wide).

Last edited by audiobomber; 09-04-2010 at 08:58 PM.
09-05-2010, 04:56 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Do you call 20 mm ultra wide on K-x?
It's exactly as wide as your kit lens when you set that to 20mm. So you can pretty much answer this for yourself. The main advantage the M20/4 would have would be size, but if I were you, I'd skip it and stick to your kit lens which is actually wider at 18mm until you save enough for something significantly wider (assuming you feel you really want something wider than 18mm).
09-05-2010, 07:58 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
It's exactly as wide as your kit lens when you set that to 20mm. So you can pretty much answer this for yourself. The main advantage the M20/4 would have would be size, but if I were you, I'd skip it and stick to your kit lens which is actually wider at 18mm until you save enough for something significantly wider (assuming you feel you really want something wider than 18mm).
Agree 200%

Looks like I can buy a nice set of somebodies grandfather. Three lenses for an amazing total of 65 Euro, M 1.7 50 mm, M 3.5 135 mm, M 2.8 28 mm and a 50 Auto macro converter (Pangor) and very "fancy" Pentax camera I will probably never ever use... All in a nice hardcover suitcase, so probably very well taken care off, but the guy is going to check them for me either way.
- He also has 500 mm F8 (mirror tele lens) - brand TBC - but probably I can get for another 10 Euro (at no additional shipping costs...)
- And an even fancier box with Praktica camera and some lenses, nobody seems to be interested in. I asked him to check the mounting M42??? and brands of the lens, maybe some nice German glass.

09-06-2010, 01:23 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
It's exactly as wide as your kit lens when you set that to 20mm. So you can pretty much answer this for yourself. The main advantage the M20/4 would have would be size, but if I were you, I'd skip it and stick to your kit lens which is actually wider at 18mm until you save enough for something significantly wider (assuming you feel you really want something wider than 18mm).
Personally, I'd say the main advantage of an M 20/4 would be prime mystique. :-) Though I will point out that the IQ should be visibly superior to the kit lens from 18-20mm. Anyway, the DA 15 Limited would certainly be a bigger boost to photographic possibilities, so save your pennies! :-p
09-06-2010, 08:33 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Looks like I can buy a nice set of somebodies grandfather.
...
- And an even fancier box with Praktica camera and some lenses, nobody seems to be interested in.
That all sounds like a nice haul! I am envious.

[/me mutters, fondles screwmount glass]
09-07-2010, 11:47 PM   #37
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some of my favorite manual focus primes are:

k35mm f3.5
Sigma 24mm f2.8 macro
Tamron 90mm f2.5 [f2.8 is even better]
09-08-2010, 09:51 AM   #38
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I completely forgot! Sorry. The lens I was meaning is in a shop in nakano, tokyo. It's called Fujiya camera. They had a couple of 135/3.5 last time I was there. They have used lenses most of the time.
(株)フジヤカメラ店 本店2階 - Google Maps

Provided, there's always a local camera shop in most big cities in japan that could get you a cheap pentax or m42.

Lastly, the yahoo japan auctions can get you the best deals. Just be aware that when you start you might not be able to stop buying cheap glass.

09-08-2010, 08:54 PM   #39
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I just paid 30 Euro (excl 6.75 transport costs) for a Pentax M 200 mm F4 (MF Prime).
  • Still targeting for 28 mm F2.8, 50 mm F1.7 and 135 mm F3.5 (with Pangor Auto Macro Converter as well as SLR with big flash...) all for 65 Euro (excl transport costs)
  • and maybe combined with some other m42 glass including a 500 mm F8 (100 Euro incl transport costs will be my first offer)
But next to that I still have to go buy a Pentax DSLR... The K-x or its successor? Isn't today the big day for such announcement?
  • I am willing to pay more for better and/or bigger LCD, 100% and larger OVF, Low light AF support light (without pop-up flash), WR, better video support incl connector for external stereo microphone, 18-125 mm kit zoom lens, Front/Back focus correction for at least up to 5 lenses.
Also so a nice 40 mm F2.8 MF pancake, LBA?
09-09-2010, 11:45 AM   #40
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Thats a good price on a M 200, but dont get fixated on bagging a bargain price, get a sniper and just prepare to pay the average price on Ebay, only on lenses which look like they are in good condition. I have wasted a lot of time building my M collection. In hindsight, being clever on price was not worth it. Its taken me a year, and I have probably missed a fair few opportunities by mucking around with off brand glass and cheaper versions of the Pentax stuff. At best, maybe you get your glass at half the going rate. That will save you GBP 100 but take a fair amount of time. In my opinion, time is more valuable, and could be spent taking photos, or enjoying the moments you want to photograph.

Maybe get a spreadsheet and look at the ratio of focal lengths you are collecting. A good starting point is 28, 50, 100, 200, or 28, 50, 85, 135, in my humble opinion. Outside this range, it gets difficult to compose and avoid camera shake, and it gets expensive. Leaving larger gaps will mean that you will find excuses for not taking decent photos. The whole kit should cost less than EUR 300, much less than a digital body, and can obviously be sold on without a loss, provided the lenses work.

The trouble with trying to get clever on selecting these lenses is that you can end up spending more time on Ebay than actually taking photos. Its worth paying a little more just to ensure you get the optical quality. So no dented filter rings, or slight signs of haze. On the plain vanilla lenses like the M 28, 50, 135 & 200, their prices are stable and you can sell the ones you dont use, without a loss. The odd ones where its important to pay attention to price are 15, 20, 40, 85 and 100 macro, where bidding wars spark up and people end up paying a wide range of prices. Sometimes these can be found in relatives selling off a kit, without separating the lenses out.

On the body, the ist DS is a nice camera, with a great bright glass viewfinder. Digital bodies suffer from marketing hype. To be a bit of a luddite, a body only needs to be light tight and focus correctly. You dont need more than 6mp for a 5x7 print.

At the end of the day, be happy, all of this kit you are looking to collect is cheaper than a single decent Leica lens, with a small and hotly disputed difference in quality. Again, I cannot emphasise this enough, life is short, dont spend too much of it on ebay and Pentaxforums!

Last edited by whojammyflip; 09-09-2010 at 12:18 PM.
09-09-2010, 09:46 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
Thats a good price on a M 200, but dont get fixated on bagging a bargain price, get a sniper and just prepare to pay the average price on Ebay, only on lenses which look like they are in good condition. I have wasted a lot of time building my M collection. In hindsight, being clever on price was not worth it. Its taken me a year, and I have probably missed a fair few opportunities by mucking around with off brand glass and cheaper versions of the Pentax stuff. At best, maybe you get your glass at half the going rate. That will save you GBP 100 but take a fair amount of time. In my opinion, time is more valuable, and could be spent taking photos, or enjoying the moments you want to photograph.

Maybe get a spreadsheet and look at the ratio of focal lengths you are collecting. A good starting point is 28, 50, 100, 200, or 28, 50, 85, 135, in my humble opinion. Outside this range, it gets difficult to compose and avoid camera shake, and it gets expensive. Leaving larger gaps will mean that you will find excuses for not taking decent photos. The whole kit should cost less than EUR 300, much less than a digital body, and can obviously be sold on without a loss, provided the lenses work.

The trouble with trying to get clever on selecting these lenses is that you can end up spending more time on Ebay than actually taking photos. Its worth paying a little more just to ensure you get the optical quality. So no dented filter rings, or slight signs of haze. On the plain vanilla lenses like the M 28, 50, 135 & 200, their prices are stable and you can sell the ones you dont use, without a loss. The odd ones where its important to pay attention to price are 15, 20, 40, 85 and 100 macro, where bidding wars spark up and people end up paying a wide range of prices. Sometimes these can be found in relatives selling off a kit, without separating the lenses out.

On the body, the ist DS is a nice camera, with a great bright glass viewfinder. Digital bodies suffer from marketing hype. To be a bit of a luddite, a body only needs to be light tight and focus correctly. You dont need more than 6mp for a 5x7 print.

At the end of the day, be happy, all of this kit you are looking to collect is cheaper than a single decent Leica lens, with a small and hotly disputed difference in quality. Again, I cannot emphasise this enough, life is short, dont spend too much of it on ebay and Pentaxforums!
Smart words, initialy I was hesitating, but this pushed me over to accept an A 55 mm F1.7 for 55 Euro, a little more expensive (55 Euro, excl transport), but in very good condition and on top of that the A might make it more easy to use for me.

I promise that by the time I have my equipment in place I will more focus on the applications than on the gear.

Still a 28 mm F2.8 and 135 mm F3.5 to go:
  • Many M 135 mm F3.5 lenses (and hardly any A), so that will be easy to find
  • In the race for A 28 mm F2.8, but no reply from the seller for last 3 days...
Oh, this morning I went by BIC Camera in Nagoya, but no K-r yet. Actually today also no K-7!!! And this time empty K-x kits in all colors... Hmm, that is strange???
  • I got confirmation the K-r will also in Japan only arrive by mid October
  • Maybe the K-5 comes earlier to replace the K-7 directly
  • And inside of the K-x bodies are being reworked to K-r's? (and body externals utilized to have customer select K-r color?)
Competition like Nikon, Canon and Sony have twice the amount of display space. And Panasonic & Olympus even four times (DSLR section and P&S / Bridge camera section).
  • The new Sony's already arrived, cool level indication on EVF, but I still prefer OVF.
  • From August 20 to October 31 Canon is selling the kit lenses for only 5,000 or 10,000 Yen (50-100 USD), that is the 18-55 IS vs the 18-135 IS.
Pentax will have to do something with discounts/rebates to draw more attention.
09-09-2010, 10:43 PM   #42
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What is "better" Takumar bayonet 135 mm F2.5 OR SMC Pentax 135 mm F3.5?
09-10-2010, 02:16 AM   #43
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You've not indicated whether you are using a DSLR already at the moment. If I were about to pay for a KR, I'd be thinking about the modern DA primes, with their AF facilities, and a second hand K10d. Economising on lenses and then spending money on the body is a bit mad. You will end up with less money AND lesser IQ. The body is disposable, loses 30% of its value every year and does not do anything for IQ. Live view and 25 frames a second do not improve IQ. Packing more pixels onto the same area increases noise at each photosite. A ist DS or K10d would suffice, spend the savings on some properly decent lenses. At least lenses don't depreciate as much.
09-10-2010, 05:08 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
You've not indicated whether you are using a DSLR already at the moment. If I were about to pay for a KR, I'd be thinking about the modern DA primes, with their AF facilities, and a second hand K10d. Economising on lenses and then spending money on the body is a bit mad. You will end up with less money AND lesser IQ. The body is disposable, loses 30% of its value every year and does not do anything for IQ. Live view and 25 frames a second do not improve IQ. Packing more pixels onto the same area increases noise at each photosite. A ist DS or K10d would suffice, spend the savings on some properly decent lenses. At least lenses don't depreciate as much.
I don't have much experiences with primes (read none), so next to a mid/entry level camera with reasonable high ISO performance with kit lens(es), I will first try out some old cheap MF prime lenses (that hardly can't lose any value any more), before making a decision on focal length of 1-2 modern AF primes or a 50-135/150 mm F2.8 fast zoom.
- The K-x and K-r will indeed lose more value over time, but the will stay alive longer than a 2nd hand DSLR. And if you want a toy then you have to get a good one, right?
09-10-2010, 05:28 AM   #45
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What camera are you currently using? What are you going to use it for...it looks like portraits of 2-4 year old kids. I see you've posted nearly 200 posts since joining in August 2010!

I'd look at getting a modern (AF) wide zoom (not 50-135, maybe the 17-70?) for indoor usage with a bounced Pentax TTL flash. Forget high ISO...you will need shutter speeds of 1/100s or more for freezing toddlers on the move at close range. A flash fires in something like 1/2000s. A mate of mine uses a couple of SB-24s on remote triggers and sets them up before hand on manual, which could be an alternative. I promise you, using a manual lens for a child racing from one end of a room to another is difficult, particularly if its set at f2.

You've missed my point on getting a second hand DSLR. To get a "good" toy, of any kind, you need to develop an informed opinion of quality. I'd not settle for a pentamirror 0.86x95. I'd want a pentaprism 0.95x95. You won't know about this if you have not used a SLR before, so my suggestion is to take the same approach with the DSLR body as with your primes before you make a mistake. Its easy to pick up a DSLR with fewer than 10000 shots having been made on it, try it out and flip it back on ebay and try another, until you know what you want.

Last edited by whojammyflip; 09-10-2010 at 05:54 AM.
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