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09-10-2010, 07:12 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
What camera are you currently using? What are you going to use it for...it looks like portraits of 2-4 year old kids. I see you've posted nearly 200 posts since joining in August 2010!

I'd look at getting a modern (AF) wide zoom (not 50-135, maybe the 17-70?) for indoor usage with a bounced Pentax TTL flash. Forget high ISO...you will need shutter speeds of 1/100s or more for freezing toddlers on the move at close range. A flash fires in something like 1/2000s. A mate of mine uses a couple of SB-24s on remote triggers and sets them up before hand on manual, which could be an alternative. I promise you, using a manual lens for a child racing from one end of a room to another is difficult, particularly if its set at f2.

You've missed my point on getting a second hand DSLR. To get a "good" toy, of any kind, you need to develop an informed opinion of quality. I'd not settle for a pentamirror 0.86x95. I'd want a pentaprism 0.95x95. You won't know about this if you have not used a SLR before, so my suggestion is to take the same approach with the DSLR body as with your primes before you make a mistake. Its easy to pick up a DSLR with fewer than 10000 shots having been made on it, try it out and flip it back on ebay and try another, until you know what you want.
Those posts were to get informed and I agree the MF primes are not close to the end goal. I will get the kit 18-55 and don't see how the 17-70 is so much better (and so far nobody told me, nor could I read that in any review). Also the penta prism won't improve the pictures, although it is "better", it will "only" result in more heavy and expensive camera (where 2nd hand is a work around for price, I did the something comparable in my SLR time...).
  • High ISO of K-x/K-r (as well as fast lenses) support faster shutter speeds
  • Full open aperture will result in shallow focus depth, so mainly if kids not running around, still fast lenses stopped down have typically better IQ
  • Trying out a flash (with bounce) is a good advice, thanks
These primes are my 2nd / 3rd decision, the 1st was which lens/lenses are best upgrade to kit lens(es) for candid portraits. Outcome:
  • Fast AF prime, but focal length to be comfirmed
    • --> that is what this thread is to prepare for, possible outcome range for 30 to 85 mm (Pentax / Sigma)
  • Fast AF zoom such as Pentax DA*50-135 mm F2.8 / Sigma 50-150 mm F2.8
    • --> if primes don't work and check range with primes and/or 1/2 kit lenses
Next to better LCD of K-r to judge results, I especially like the focus assist beam and faster focus, because with pop-up flash I would disturb the situation before taking a pictue. So there is significant added value over K-x (independent on price).

09-10-2010, 07:59 AM   #47
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To me, in the current environment, the thing to do is get your k-x while you are in Japan, in a color combo you like which will sell well for you in Europe, and buy the new 35/2.4 in the matching (or complimentary) colour. Chose well, and you could sell in six months to pick up a k-r and a 35/2. I don't know what could go wrong.

To me, your manual lens binge has more to do with collector instinct than it does with photography. Believe me, I know.
09-10-2010, 08:58 AM   #48
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Based on the fact you are taking photos of your kids indoors, at f8 or maybe f5.6, you would get shutter times of 1/15s or 1/30s at ISO 1600 in a well lit room. Flash is still a necessity and ISO performance at 3200 is for marketing.

If AF times are important to you, then you should investigate the lenses more, as the 18-55 has different focussing to the higher end lenses, as I understand (the 17-70 is SDM).

If money is no object, which is how it sounds, (and ultimately as discussed before, you can sell lenses for near what you pay for them, so who cares anyway, you're just renting them for the long run ) I'd get the 16-50 DA*f2.8, 50-135 and the 560 flash.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Last edited by whojammyflip; 09-10-2010 at 09:38 AM.
09-10-2010, 09:27 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Impartial Quote
To me, your manual lens binge has more to do with collector instinct than it does with photography. Believe me, I know.
QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
You can sell lenses for near what you pay for them, so who cares anyway, you're just renting them for the long run
You might both be right .

100 or 200 Euro more or less is indeed not a deal breaker for me, but buying something of 400 Euro or more which I will hardly use feel no good to me.
- Current direction is K-r + 35 mm F2.4 + 1 or 2 kit zooms (maybe used) + bounce flash and later decide which lens to upgrade (Fast prime or Fast wide or Tele zoom).

09-12-2010, 12:38 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
[...] Also the penta prism won't improve the pictures, although it is "better", it will "only" result in more heavy and expensive camera [...]
I have to disagree! Smallish pentamirrors suck. The moment it get's dark you will see next to nothing. Secondly, getting manual focus right is a pain.

So, while a pentaprism won't improve (technical) image qualitiy, it will surely help to get better photos more easily.
09-12-2010, 02:21 AM   #51
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The A28/2.8 is very good. I have tested it.
It is the MF version of the also very good autofocus F28/2.8.

If you have the money and the opportunity I can also recommend the M or A28/2.0, which is one of the best 28mm lenses ever made, IMO. I have tested it against the famous K28/2 and found no difference. I kept the A28 because it is much smaller.

There are also a few copies of the Tokina 28/2.8 with an A button, which sell for almost nothing. Optically they are also good.
09-12-2010, 06:44 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
The A28/2.8 is very good. I have tested it.
It is the MF version of the also very good autofocus F28/2.8.

If you have the money and the opportunity I can also recommend the M or A28/2.0, which is one of the best 28mm lenses ever made, IMO. I have tested it against the famous K28/2 and found no difference. I kept the A28 because it is much smaller.

There are also a few copies of the Tokina 28/2.8 with an A button, which sell for almost nothing. Optically they are also good.
Is there a big difference with M 28 mm F2.8 (compared to A 28 mm F2.8)?
- The guy of the A wants 60 Euro, the M is less than 30
09-12-2010, 07:23 AM   #53
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Optically they are the same.
Mechanically the M is even better.
But the A has the A-button, which allows you to use the program modes Av etc.
The M version can be used in M mode only, with the well known problems (unreliable exposure).

09-12-2010, 08:50 AM   #54
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Actually, the M & A 28's are *not* optically the same. At least, the most common M28/2.8 is not the same - there is later and much less common "version 2" of the M28/2.8 that indeed optically the same as the A. it also *looks* more like the A, at least in terms of the focus ring. Opinions seem split on which is actually *better* optically. That fact plus the resolution tests I've seen are enough to convince me that whatever differences there are won't actually matter.

As for exposure reliability with the M lens, that depends on the camera. In general, it's only a few of the pentaprism models that have problems - all of the pentamirror models as well as the older pentaprism models are perfectly consistent with M lenses.
09-12-2010, 09:38 AM   #55
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Have M300/4, friend has A300/4. Get alot of good natured 'static' from 'buddy' about
gymnastics related to green button metering compared to ' zoned' availble with "A"
contacts. Is it fair to make comparison when metering differences like this exist.
Have tamron 90/2.5 and 360B, also have both PK & PK(A) adapters for them
Think Im stuck in "m" mindset, easier for me to hang PK adapter on one, than
PKA and re-adjust 'minds eye'

This is Lens price database for a lot of stuff one might see on ebay, seems reliable
and fits very well with what Mark and HJ say ( some very good advice)
http://www.jcolwell.ca/photography/lens$db/Lens$db-v12.pdf
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