[axl]

I used to have M85 but sold it to finance FA100/2.8 which I sold to finance FA77ltd. Do I regret? Hell no! 77 is one of the best lenses I have used and even if M85 is a sweet lens, it doesn't measure up against FA77 IMO. They are roughly the same size wit FA being AF & AE and tad better IQ (my personal opinion) and 1/3 stop faster. Unless you aren't collector there isn't reason to have both other than when you need the very specific rendering M85 can deliver.
My 2p

[Pentaxor]

I used to have M85 but sold it to finance FA100/2.8 which I sold to finance FA77ltd. Do I regret? Hell no! 77 is one of the best lenses I have used and even if M85 is a sweet lens, it doesn't measure up against FA77 IMO. They are roughly the same size wit FA being AF & AE and tad better IQ (my personal opinion) and 1/3 stop faster. Unless you aren't collector there isn't reason to have both other than when you need the very specific rendering M85 can deliver.
My 2p

let's say the M85 is the poor man's 77.

[yeatzee]

let's say the M85 is the poor man's 77.

Didn't Jay coin that?

[axl]

let's say the M85 is the poor man's 77.

I think we could agree on that...
although I haven't tried K85/1.8 which is supposed to be better than M85....
and if M85 is poor man's 77 how would we classify the K???

[yeatzee]

I think we could agree on that...
although I haven't tried K85/1.8 which is supposed to be better than M85....

According to whome?

(just curious )

[kjao]

If AF is the main concern then I would go with DA70. I don't have Ltd77 myself but have DA70 and from my personal experience and other posts, DA70 seems to have faster AF speed.

I have got K85/1.8 + DA70 myself. Another reason, apart from AF speed, that I chose DA70 is the field of view with 70mm is more different than 77mm when compared to 85mm.

Cheers
Kenny

[GeneV]

If AF is the main concern then I would go with DA70. I don't have Ltd77 myself but have DA70 and from my personal experience and other posts, DA70 seems to have faster AF speed.

I have got K85/1.8 + DA70 myself. Another reason, apart from AF speed, that I chose DA70 is the field of view with 70mm is more different than 77mm when compared to 85mm.

Cheers
Kenny

That's a good choice if you aren't using film. I have both the DA70 and FA77, and, because I still shoot film, I'd keep the FA77 first.

[Pentaxor]

I think we could agree on that...
although I haven't tried K85/1.8 which is supposed to be better than M85....
and if M85 is poor man's 77 how would we classify the K???

I think we can classify it where the K28/2 stands, which is "no equivalent as of the moment". :ugh:

[Pentaxor]

If AF is the main concern then I would go with DA70. I don't have Ltd77 myself but have DA70 and from my personal experience and other posts, DA70 seems to have faster AF speed.

I have got K85/1.8 + DA70 myself. Another reason, apart from AF speed, that I chose DA70 is the field of view with 70mm is more different than 77mm when compared to 85mm.

Cheers
Kenny

nothing wrong with the DA70. it's a great lens as well. although it's still as suspect with regards to FF use. if you don't need speed and satisfied with APS-C sensor, then this would be a great lens.

[axl]

According to whome?

(just curious )

it's generally in higher regard than the M....

[whojammyflip]

Asahiflex, thats a great portrait! Nice background and great light.

For what its worth, I've looked at the lens diagrams on Bojidar's Pentax website. I believe I am right in saying that the M 85mm was deliberately designed for portraits with a softer background with the older Takumar/Ernostar type confirguration, with less correction, than the SMC 85mm. In comparison, the FA 77mm has a Ultron Tronnier lens design, very similar to the exalted M 50mm f1.7. So, it depends what you intend to use the lens for. It seems to me from the old Pentax marketing literature (check out Pentax-manuals.com website), that the M 85mm was intended for portraits, whereas the FA 77mm is a more general usage lens. The other thing to bear in mind is that these were designed for 35mm full frame, and will bounce extra light around in the inside of a DSLR (someone should set about making some masks like that at the back of my M 200mm).

[Ole]

The are quite a few reviews of the M 85mm f/2 in the lens database and even more of the FA 77mm - might be worth checking out:

SMC Pentax-M 85mm F2 Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database

SMC Pentax-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database

[Blue]

Well, its not just the built-in flash, though. With the M lens, you lose wireless P-TTL with off-camera flash, which is a bigger deal to me. I also find the built-in hood of the FA77 to be a big plus since I change primes frequently and hate keeping up with separate hoods. The convenience of hood use effectively raises lens IQ significantly. If I'm outdoors, I will probably take the M75-150 over the K135 2.5 just because I know that the screw-on hood for the K135 is a PITA and I may not use it where I need it.

I'd still like to have both, but if I passed on one, it would be the M85.

You lose P-TTL all together with M, k, and m42 lenses. That's why the ttl function on the *istD, DS, DS2 was nice because at least ttl will work with all lenses.

[Blue]

Asahiflex, thats a great portrait! Nice background and great light.

For what its worth, I've looked at the lens diagrams on Bojidar's Pentax website. I believe I am right in saying that the M 85mm was deliberately designed for portraits with a softer background with the older Takumar/Ernostar type confirguration, with less correction, than the SMC 85mm. In comparison, the FA 77mm has a Ultron Tronnier lens design, very similar to the exalted M 50mm f1.7. So, it depends what you intend to use the lens for. It seems to me from the old Pentax marketing literature (check out Pentax-manuals.com website), that the M 85mm was intended for portraits, whereas the FA 77mm is a more general usage lens. The other thing to bear in mind is that these were designed for 35mm full frame, and will bounce extra light around in the inside of a DSLR (someone should set about making some masks like that at the back of my M 200mm).

The inspiration for the M 85 was the Super Tak 85/1.9 and the inspiration for the FA 77 ltd was the A* 85mm/1.4/.
M 85 diagram



Super Tak 85mm/1.9 diagram





The FA 77mm ltd




A* 85mm/1.4

[whojammyflip]

...and the inspiration for the FA 77 ltd was the A* 85mm/1.4/.

The Takumar 50/1.4 had the layout, designed even earlier than the A 85.


I find it very interesting that the same lens design can lead to different performances...I guess it comes down to the consistency and accuracy of the refractive index of the glass employed, the lens coatings, baffles, quality of the mounts for the elements, coatings...