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09-09-2010, 10:36 AM   #76
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Having a prime in the kit stable can't hurt. I don't see much need for it in my own stable, but I'm not the target market for this one.

09-09-2010, 10:50 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote
Hah, yeah, I just really like anything that looks really nice on my red K-x. It can suck but if it looks good, I know I'm good to go. I'm one of those folks that paid more for a black spotmatic.

Aside from all the back and forth, I think Marc really hit the nail on the head. This may not be what everyone wanted here but this is a step in the right direction for Pentax.

Comparing this lens exclusively against the Nikon 35/1.8 is also unfair. I know I did it but it was from the perception of Joe Schmoe. On paper the Nikon 35 looks much better. However, we can't take a photo with only a lens and without a camera body. If you look at it in terms of the K-r + DA35/2.4 vs the competitor's, this setup actually stacks up very well. I think we're overlooking that aspect.
believe me, you are not the only person that a camera or lens is good by virtue of colorway.

honestly, I didn't entirely overlook what Pentax is trying to do with the DAL 35. for us, it might had fell short of what we wanted. but we are not the target market. aside from that, the waiting game continues on how this lens will perform. and if Pentax miscalculated on how they made this lens render much better, it can possibly cannibalize the DA40 sales, by virtue of aperture speed, affordability and focal length.

as far as comparison with Nikon is concerned, how does the DA35/2.8 and DA40/2.8 lenses perform against the Nikon 35/1.8 ? setting the speed advantage aside but at similar aperture openings. I personally know the answer with regards to this, but would be interesting to see how the others what the differences are and what they may obtain or find missing.
09-09-2010, 11:16 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I figure the f/2.4 is going to the be "missing viewfinder indicators" of the DA35. That is, we'll see a million inquiries over the next few months from people considering this lens, but wondering if f/2.4 is a problem. And lots of bickering back and forth in response.

The truth is, f/2.4 both is and isn't a problem, just as discussed here. With SR, the Pentax combo will actually perform thank Nikon better in situations where subject motion is not the main concern, worse when it is. The former probably outweigh the latter by a pretty large amount - it's not likely you're going to stop any *real* motion in low light without flash. But it's numbers that sell, not realities, so it's going to look like a mistake to many no matter how you slice it.

Some other comments:

- Somewhere in this thread someone claimed it was twice as expensive as the Nikon. That's not true. MSRP is only barely higher. The difference in street price might buy you a couple of Happy Meals. I suspect Nikon's 35mm is basically a loss leader for them, something they can probably afford to do better than Pentax.

- True to Pentax form, it's smaller and lighter than the competition, by a sort of surprisingly large margin - not that it *really* matters in a lens like this.

- Even if the DA35 had been f/2, I can't see it really touching the FA31 sales. No one buys the FA31 except extremely discriminating photographers who are, in relative terms anyhow, practically made of money. Most of them also buy it with the intent of using it on FF (film or potential digital), and love it as much for the build as anything else. I can't imagine that many people who were *seriously* considering the FA31 being tempted by an APS-C-only & plastic (even if it had a metal mount) DA35/2 unless Pentax has pulled off a miracle in optical performance here. In an event, the FA31 can't possibly sell in enough numbers for Pentax to really care that much about the occasional lost sale. So I don't think the risk of cannibalizing FA31 sales had anything to do with the f/2.4 decision. I think it was mostly about cost and weight.

- Similarly, I can't why why Pentax would care about cannibalizing sales of a lens they no longer sell, so the former existence of the FA35 in their lineup also doesn't strike me as relevant to why they may have chosen to go with f/2.4.

- Had it been f/2 instead of f/2.4, I might have bought one even though I already have the DA40 and a 28/2.8. As it is, I kind of doubt I will. What this indirectly leads me to realize is that a DA35/2 might cannibalizing DA40/2.8 sales by more than DA35/2.4 would. With a cheaper 35/2 in the lineup, build would be really the main reason to choose the 40 over a few pretty strong strong incentives to choose the 35 (speed, price, focal length - unless you happened to refer 40mm, of course). With a DA35/2.4, the incentive to choose the 35 over the 40 lessens - now it's mainly price and perhaps focal length. So *maybe* they saved themselves a few DA40 sales by making the 35 an f/2.4.

- Remember that video of that trade show a year or two back when some French sales rep made a comment about the DA15 "completing" the lineup, and all the controversy over what he meant? If nothing else, the release of this lens shows that Pentax has *not* pulled out of the new lens business.

- The fact that they are willing to put out an f/2.4 prime gives me a glimmer of hope that I may someday see the lens I really want: a DA26/2.4. True, I'd want mine a Limited with integrated hood, but if they can give me a DA L at half the price that a Limited would go for, I'd take it. Actually, though, the fact that the 35 is a DA L might suggest that *if* they put out a 26, it would need to be in a different class to avoid competition. So I'll keep hoping for the Limited.

- Are those color options for real? I don't see anything about them on the penxtaximaging site.
.

Agreed on all points, I think.

The Nikon 35 1.8 is a very sharp lens with very good contrast - it's limitations are barrel distortion (really visible in close-in portraits,) and some CA. If Pentax does better in those two areas, and it is very sharp wide-open, it's going to be hard to resist getting one if you don't have the FL covered already with a prime. Especially when it starts going for $199, $189, etc.

When the Nikon 35 1.8G came out, a lot of folks who wanted a $1000 35 1.4 for FF were disappointed, and lamented the 'for the masses' tack Nikon took - and a lot of them ended up buying the 35 1.8G for their D300 'second body', and loving it, in spite of themselves.

This new DA 35 is super small, light, inexpensive, and a great FL for aps-c. f/2.4 is a drawback, IMO, but having no lens in this space is much worse.


.
09-09-2010, 11:34 AM   #79
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I think I'm getting it... After having seen the optical layouts of the FA35 and the DA35 it dawned on me...

Could it be possible they do the 55mm f/1.8 and 55mm f/2 Takumar trick again? For those who don't know: at that time (in the 60's and 70's) Pentax had three standard lenses, the 50mm f/1.4 was the most expensive, the 55mm f/1.8 was the intermediate speed model and the 55mm f/2 was the budget model.

The funny part is that the f/2 and f/1.8 models were 100% the same optically. Only the f/2 model had an internal light baffle which practically stopped down the lens to f/2. Now that I remember this story and the strange f/2.4 speed... Could it be possible that Pentax wants to give us two options? They discontinued the FA35/2, but I see almost the same optics in the DA35/2.4. What if they decided to give the non-WR bodies the cheap DA35/2.4, and the owners of the more expensive WR bodies a DA35/2 WR?

So in other words: could it be possible that the DA35/2.4 is crippled in exactly the same way as the 55mm f/2 Takumar: with an internal light baffle, but that it sports exactly the same optics as the (possibly upcoming) DA35/2 WR?

I don't know if this is a strange idea, but the speed of f/2.4 is suspicious...

09-09-2010, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I think I'm getting it... After having seen the optical layouts of the FA35 and the DA35 it dawned on me...

Could it be possible they do the 55mm f/1.8 and 55mm f/2 Takumar trick again? For those who don't know: at that time (in the 60's and 70's) Pentax had three standard lenses, the 50mm f/1.4 was the most expensive, the 55mm f/1.8 was the intermediate speed model and the 55mm f/2 was the budget model.

The funny part is that the f/2 and f/1.8 models were 100% the same optically. Only the f/2 model had an internal light baffle which practically stopped down the lens to f/2. Now that I remember this story and the strange f/2.4 speed... Could it be possible that Pentax wants to give us two options? They discontinued the FA35/2, but I see almost the same optics in the DA35/2.4. What if they decided to give the non-WR bodies the cheap DA35/2.4, and the owners of the more expensive WR bodies a DA35/2 WR?

So in other words: could it be possible that the DA35/2.4 is crippled in exactly the same way as the 55mm f/2 Takumar: with an internal light baffle, but that it sports exactly the same optics as the (possibly upcoming) DA35/2 WR?

I don't know if this is a strange idea, but the speed of f/2.4 is suspicious...
I have made similar speculations in a couple of these threads given that the DA L zooms all have a corresponding "regular" model. It is possible that they will release a DA 35/2 AL WR with the K-5.
09-09-2010, 11:43 AM   #81
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I like it!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I think I'm getting it... After having seen the optical layouts of the FA35 and the DA35 it dawned on me...

Could it be possible they do the 55mm f/1.8 and 55mm f/2 Takumar trick again? For those who don't know: at that time (in the 60's and 70's) Pentax had three standard lenses, the 50mm f/1.4 was the most expensive, the 55mm f/1.8 was the intermediate speed model and the 55mm f/2 was the budget model.

The funny part is that the f/2 and f/1.8 models were 100% the same optically. Only the f/2 model had an internal light baffle which practically stopped down the lens to f/2. Now that I remember this story and the strange f/2.4 speed... Could it be possible that Pentax wants to give us two options? They discontinued the FA35/2, but I see almost the same optics in the DA35/2.4. What if they decided to give the non-WR bodies the cheap DA35/2.4, and the owners of the more expensive WR bodies a DA35/2 WR?

So in other words: could it be possible that the DA35/2.4 is crippled in exactly the same way as the 55mm f/2 Takumar: with an internal light baffle, but that it sports exactly the same optics as the (possibly upcoming) DA35/2 WR?

I don't know if this is a strange idea, but the speed of f/2.4 is suspicious...
09-09-2010, 11:47 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I have made similar speculations in a couple of these threads given that the DA L zooms all have a corresponding "regular" model. It is possible that they will release a DA 35/2 AL WR with the K-5.
Sorry, I missed that but great minds think alike

The more I think about it the more plausible it sounds...
09-09-2010, 11:50 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I have made similar speculations in a couple of these threads given that the DA L zooms all have a corresponding "regular" model. It is possible that they will release a DA 35/2 AL WR with the K-5.
It seems like the same thing was done with shutter speeds back in the early 70s with the SP500. Top shutter speed was given as 1/500, but all they did was delete the mark for 1000 from the shutter control as it existed on the SPII. You could still turn the dial past 500 and get 1/1000.

09-09-2010, 12:40 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I have made similar speculations in a couple of these threads given that the DA L zooms all have a corresponding "regular" model. It is possible that they will release a DA 35/2 AL WR with the K-5.
My thoughts precisely.
This too would make good business sense as I have alluded to previously...
We'll wait and see in less than 10 days...
09-09-2010, 01:05 PM   #85
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I wonder what the DA 35mm f/2 would cost? I would guess between $400-600.
09-09-2010, 01:57 PM   #86
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Interesting. I think a DA WR version's existence would make a lot of sense of this, and it's good to have something to get the entry-level crowd into a prime: I very much doubt the Pentax store's initial price is anywhere near as low as that goes, if patterns hold.
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM   #87
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Well, it would make a lot of sense with the DA L35 and DA35WR. Let's wait and see but now you guys put a big bug into my head
09-09-2010, 02:34 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
well, it would make a lot of sense with the da l35 and da35wr. Let's wait and see but now you guys put a big bug into my head
inception
09-09-2010, 04:58 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
This is a consumer lens, mostly for beginners. I could see them selecting a maximum aperture of 2.4 in order to ensure high IQ at *any* setting, so as not to throw off beginners.

E.g., My 50mm 1.7 is really always shot at 2.0, or ideally, 2.8, and above. I never use 1.7. I suppose it's nice to have, but give that lens to a beginner and they would say "this lens is terrible, everything is so soft and there are chromatic aberrations everywhere!"
This is an excellent point!
09-09-2010, 05:04 PM   #90
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Probably just the FA35 with the light baffles lol. Great lens it should turn out to be but looks kinda ugly lol
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