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09-18-2010, 07:38 AM   #166
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I am with a friend and found that his Nikkor 35/1.8 is really very good at 2.5 aperture. I will wait to see what 35/2.4 will be like wide open at 2.4. I feel it won't be as good as nikkor 35/1.8 at 2.4/2.5. But it still have the size advantage.

09-18-2010, 07:48 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by kales Quote
I am with a friend and found that his Nikkor 35/1.8 is really very good at 2.5 aperture. I will wait to see what 35/2.4 will be like wide open at 2.4. I feel it won't be as good as nikkor 35/1.8 at 2.4/2.5. But it still have the size advantage.
DA35/2.4 will be good at f/2.4 like FA35 is sharp from wide-opened.
09-18-2010, 07:57 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
DA35/2.4 will be good at f/2.4 like FA35 is sharp from wide-opened.
After I saw the actual photo of 35/1.8 nikkor, I really doubt that 35/2.4 could reach nikon, even it's sharp.
09-18-2010, 08:10 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by kales Quote
I am with a friend and found that his Nikkor 35/1.8 is really very good at 2.5 aperture.
The irony is that this Nikkor 35mm is an APSC lens and that (AFAWK) this Pentax 35mm is a full frame lens

So, the Pentax lens has its own merits.

09-18-2010, 08:40 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by kales Quote
After I saw the actual photo of 35/1.8 nikkor, I really doubt that 35/2.4 could reach nikon, even it's sharp.
Why? Did you see FA35?

DA35 has the same optical design.

Last edited by ogl; 09-18-2010 at 08:45 AM.
09-18-2010, 09:34 AM   #171
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It's not all about sharpness and resolution. No sharpness can beat the sense of depth, space and 3-D effect you can achieve for example with sigma 30/1.4. Even if the resolution at the edges is crap - that's not the part of the image your'e looking at. The subject gets obviously separated, you can have much more composition flexibility etc. And the resolution is bad only at the very edges, at F1.4 subject will be plenty sharp even if not dead center (e.g placed at golden mean).

Or give coating/distortion/optic control. If they are really good, you get what you see in real life. E.g. no flares, hazing colour casts or fringing even in strong contrast situations. Correct geometry, no light falloff and other optical characteristics unrelated to DOF and resolution can give great sense of presence, if they are good. The image feels like "in your face" instead of just "picture". Even instantly invisible visual defects detach you from the actual scene.
E.g. the ugly fringing in highlights/bokeh of FA35, instantly make you perceive it as a photograph - optically manipulated representation of the scene.

Btw..
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The irony is that this Nikkor 35mm is an APSC lens and that (AFAWK) this Pentax 35mm is a full frame lens

So, the Pentax lens has its own merits.
Even greater irony is that Pentax has no official plans for FF camera. So you like to pay for something you won't be using anyway. You may say film, but if the performance is "as good" as some of the DA LTD's that get blurry and distorted at edges on film, thats not a real "coverage".

Last edited by ytterbium; 09-18-2010 at 11:19 AM.
09-18-2010, 01:19 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by kales Quote
After I saw the actual photo of 35/1.8 nikkor, I really doubt that 35/2.4 could reach nikon, even it's sharp.
On what basis to you base your doubt? If the DA 35/2.4 is equal to the FA, then it is capable. It could even be a little better than the FA.
09-18-2010, 01:35 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
It's not all about sharpness and resolution. No sharpness can beat the sense of depth, space and 3-D effect you can achieve for example with sigma 30/1.4.
Depth, space and 3-D can still be rendered at f/2.4
If it's not for low-light shooting ability, then f/2.4 is plenty enough for background separation. I can even recall shooting with a P&S film cam with a fixed f/8 35mm lens that I could get decent selective focusing between near and far objects in the frame. That's more than 3 stops down!

How about trying it out? Find the situations you shoot at f/1.4 with the 30mm and stop down to f/2.4 for those same scenes to see if you lose much of that depth control and 3-D effect you're after in the results...

09-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Depth, space and 3-D can still be rendered at f/2.4
Would you say the same about a 54/3.7 on FF?
Because that's what the 35/2.4 on APS-C is in equivalent terms.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Find the situations you shoot at f/1.4 with the 30mm and stop down to f/2.4 for those same scenes to see if you lose much of that depth control and 3-D effect you're after in the results...
No doubt the difference between f/1.4 and f/2.4 is very noticeable. Whether one needs it, is another matter.
09-18-2010, 07:52 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Would you say the same about a 54/3.7 on FF?
Because that's what the 35/2.4 on APS-C is in equivalent terms.


No doubt the difference between f/1.4 and f/2.4 is very noticeable. Whether one needs it, is another matter.
3D effect is dependent on a number of things. The DA 35 is very able to give this effect at f2.8, because of its ability to close focus. As to whether or not the DA 35 f2.4 will be able to do the same is debatable; however, the full frame equivalency issue is a red herring.
09-18-2010, 10:11 PM   #176
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Just checked a finnish/swedish webstore cyberphoto.fi and they have the 2.4/35mm listed with a price of 202e. They also have Pentax SMC-FA 35/2,0 AL listed at 842e...
09-19-2010, 02:02 AM   #177
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The 1.4/DOF thing wasn't my main point anyway. What changes with F stop is the working distance, to get decent separation. With 1.4 I could shoot person in full length and get a background blur that is not just barely bordering the circle of confusion size. Btw i don't have the sigma anymore, it had horrible AF issues. Thats one of the areas where i expect improvement in DAL35.

The F2.4 really will give plenty of DOF control in most situations, just not as much. What will be more important are the other factors i've mentioned. E.g. if the lens is really after FA i'd hope the CA/PF has been fixed. At F2.4 performance of DA Ltd's would be much more welcome.

Last edited by ytterbium; 09-19-2010 at 02:10 AM.
09-19-2010, 03:29 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by ovim Quote
Just checked a finnish/swedish webstore cyberphoto.fi and they have the 2.4/35mm listed with a price of 202e. They also have Pentax SMC-FA 35/2,0 AL listed at 842e...
Funny how prices develop, they also have Zeiss Distagon T* 35/2,0 ZK for 977 euro, just a good hundred more than FA 35. (FA 31 Ltd is 1278 euro there)
09-19-2010, 02:58 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
however, the full frame equivalency issue is a red herring.
No, it shows how sloooow the lens really is on APS-C. It's a prime for Pete's sake.

Since it isnt' WR and hasn't got quickshift either, the only point in its favour is the size. I hope it works for some; I think an affordable FA50/1.4 was a better way to make people buy further primes.
09-19-2010, 06:45 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
No, it shows how sloooow the lens really is on APS-C. It's a prime for Pete's sake.

Since it isnt' WR and hasn't got quickshift either, the only point in its favour is the size. I hope it works for some; I think an affordable FA50/1.4 was a better way to make people buy further primes.
Maybe so, at least for some people. The 50 mm focal length didn't work too well for me and I didn't shoot that particular lens much wider than f2.8 anyway, so I guess it didn't really work for me.

As far as depth of field goes, there really isn't that much different between f2.4 and f1.8 at 35mm. Shooting a subject 3 meters away, at f1.8 you will have a depth of field of .55 meters and f2.4 a depth of field of .7 meters.

The biggest reasons to shoot primes at this point are for edge to edge sharpness, bokeh and small size. Otherwise, zooms match up well. In most situations, I would far rather shoot at f4 and bump my iso than open up the lens too wide and have out of focus shots.
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