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09-09-2010, 06:33 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rory Quote
The Samsung 30mm f2 seems to go for <$300, now. I would've been happier if they created something similar, but I know a lot of people would.

For now we wait, and hope that the reviews come in well. If not, I take it as an omen of their fuure business model.
It's still going to be $100 more than the DA 35/2.4, and is just like the FA 35/2...

As for other offerings, Canon 35/2 is sharp enough but with dull bokeh, we've already heard about Nikon's 35/1.8 and its 35/2 is no better.

The K-5 should come out with a lens (or two) of its own (hopefully with a prime) and allay some of these concerns...

09-09-2010, 06:39 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
...it doesn't end here.
On what basis do you come to this conclusion?
09-09-2010, 06:42 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's still going to be $100 more than the DA 35/2.4, and is just like the FA 35/2...

As for other offerings, Canon 35/2 is sharp enough but with dull bokeh, we've already heard about Nikon's 35/1.8 and its 35/2 is no better.

The K-5 should come out with a lens (or two) of its own (hopefully with a prime) and allay some of these concerns...
That would be fantastic if that's the case, but has there been anywhere near the amount of rumors regarding that that there were for the 35/2.4? We've heard about this lens for quite some time. Heard of the Kr and K5 for a while. However, a second or third lens release I haven't heard of.
09-09-2010, 06:57 PM   #49
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If this lens does prove impressive in the IQ area, then I think it will be a very ideal match for me.

1. So far I have mostly only needed a fast lens for casual portraits or shallow DOF, not for low-light so my M 50/1.7 will suffice.
2. I am a high schooler on a budget wanting to try out more prime lens shooting.
3. f/2.8 is still a whole lot faster than my 18-55 kit x]

09-09-2010, 07:19 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
I think you nailed the concern here...QC...if the whiff on the QC for this lense they will lose the novice shooters this lense is trying to get into the HoyaTax Ecosystem...they are going after a price ppoint where kids in HS can afford a nice body and a couple lenses if they save...but for around $1000 max they can have a very nice setup...that you can learn from, and if the gear is actually well made, these people will bond with the brand and hopefully wobble up the ladder to other options.

Still, it's nuttin' that really blow my skirt up... This is just for getting younger folks into the Pentax brand...
Agreed.
09-09-2010, 07:37 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
For sure some will move from the DA35 as their first prime to K, M, and A MF lenses. But if we are talking about first time dSLR buyers (the K-x and K-r target), many will be uninterested in focusing for themselves and will want AF in their primes.

The DA35 is deliberately styled like the DA Limiteds and a DA35 owner holding a DA70 in their hands will hopefully understand where the extra cost goes, and enamored enough with the size and quality benefits that primes offer over zooms, a lesson they learned with their cheap and cheerful DA35.
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
On what basis do you come to this conclusion?
Simple economics.

Sony and Nikon are starting to release lower-end prime lens systems alongside their budget kit lenses. Not just one lens, but 3-5.

Primes are no longer seen as upscale purchases, but will occupy a series of price points from budget to craftsman, mirroring the offerings in bodies.

This is a huge change for the ever-cautious Pentax because they cannot avoid this competition, but they seem to have staked their revenues on high-end Ltd and *primes. This looks to be a mistaken strategy.

Also, ISO advances have made it easier to justify slower, less expensive glass. This enables greater economies of scale using less materials.

So I predict a few years worth of DAL primes in the Pentax future, if they can balance their revenue losses from such cannibalization. A great number of Pentaxians will eschew higher-end glass for better value lower down the price point ladder. "Good enough" for Facebook photos, but sill a nice, light prime.
09-09-2010, 08:09 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Simple economics.

Sony and Nikon are starting to release lower-end prime lens systems alongside their budget kit lenses. Not just one lens, but 3-5.

Primes are no longer seen as upscale purchases, but will occupy a series of price points from budget to craftsman, mirroring the offerings in bodies.

This is a huge change for the ever-cautious Pentax because they cannot avoid this competition, but they seem to have staked their revenues on high-end Ltd and *primes. This looks to be a mistaken strategy.

Also, ISO advances have made it easier to justify slower, less expensive glass. This enables greater economies of scale using less materials.

So I predict a few years worth of DAL primes in the Pentax future, if they can balance their revenue losses from such cannibalization. A great number of Pentaxians will eschew higher-end glass for better value lower down the price point ladder. "Good enough" for Facebook photos, but sill a nice, light prime.
I seriously don't know where and how you come up with your marketing pronouncements.
Pentax have no doubt done their own focus group studies on consumer preferences and examined the camera trends to produce a product like the new K-r and DA 35mm f/2.4.
I think they know a lot more of market trends than you actually do.

Market and shipments. SLR cameras with interchangeable lenses for beginners are on the rise


Young people emphasize design and color


Compared to the competition
09-10-2010, 04:27 AM   #53
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Great, now let's bundle bundle bundle...

[x-posted from dpreview forums]

Make it a bundle with the K-r, as with the old SLRs with a fast 50. That will send the signal "Pentax is the brand to get if you want compact and great primes".

And with high ISO being what it is with the new crop of APS-C dSLRs, a 35 f2.4 gives you much more low light capabilities than we ever had with a fast 50 + film.

What we lose is the possibility to get a really narrow DOF. But imho the difference between the competition's f1.8 or Pentax f2.4 is not a very big deal. The ultimate street lens for Pentax APS-C would imo be a cheap, small, 35mm f1.4 prime, but that is not very likely to happen, now is it?

If it has IQ as other Pentax lenses it will make one or two new owners think one more time before getting the kit lens.

And that is where we should see the place of the new DA35f2.4. Not as a rival of more expensive primes DA35macro or FA31, but an alternative to the 18-55mm kit, which @ 35mm has a max aperture of f4.5.

To me f2.4 is a big improvement over f4.5 at that FL. And it will show in the images the new buyers will get from their system.

09-10-2010, 05:05 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I seriously don't know where and how you come up with your marketing pronouncements.
Pentax have no doubt done their own focus group studies on consumer preferences and examined the camera trends to produce a product like the new K-r and DA 35mm f/2.4.
I think they know a lot more of market trends than you actually do.

Market and shipments. SLR cameras with interchangeable lenses for beginners are on the rise


Young people emphasize design and color


Compared to the competition
You just proved my point.

Your graphs demonstrate that as prices have fallen, sales have increased. And young people (with lesser incomes generally) are buying into DSLR's. Yea!

The graph also shows that young buyers also look for aesthetic features like colour. It's not what gets them to buy a DSLR, but attracts them to brand x vs. y. That's Pentax's marketing innovation. People aren't saying "I want a red DSLR". They are saying "I want a DSLR for better quality photos, and I like Pentax's red option. And it's a bit smaller than the Canon."

So my point that price is dominant speaks to the fact that we are likely to see primes in other FL's in the future at lower price points to meet this demand.

This market surge was ONLY made possible by lower camera and lens prices. So why stop and low-end bodies (K-m, K-x, K-r when it replaces the K-x as it will eventually), and kit lenses? Why not a range of DAL primes? Sony and Nikon are thinking that way. but Pentax is known for its primes. The market is, to some extent, moving towards Pentax, which is a good thing.
09-10-2010, 06:25 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by wowtip Quote
[x-posted from dpreview forums]

Make it a bundle with the K-r, as with the old SLRs with a fast 50. That will send the signal "Pentax is the brand to get if you want compact and great primes".

And with high ISO being what it is with the new crop of APS-C dSLRs, a 35 f2.4 gives you much more low light capabilities than we ever had with a fast 50 + film.

What we lose is the possibility to get a really narrow DOF. But imho the difference between the competition's f1.8 or Pentax f2.4 is not a very big deal. The ultimate street lens for Pentax APS-C would imo be a cheap, small, 35mm f1.4 prime, but that is not very likely to happen, now is it?

If it has IQ as other Pentax lenses it will make one or two new owners think one more time before getting the kit lens.

And that is where we should see the place of the new DA35f2.4. Not as a rival of more expensive primes DA35macro or FA31, but an alternative to the 18-55mm kit, which @ 35mm has a max aperture of f4.5.

To me f2.4 is a big improvement over f4.5 at that FL. And it will show in the images the new buyers will get from their system.
A K-r and the DA 35 as a bundle would definitely get a look from me. The can keep the DA L zoom.
09-10-2010, 07:21 AM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
You just proved my point.

Your graphs demonstrate that as prices have fallen, sales have increased. And young people (with lesser incomes generally) are buying into DSLR's. Yea!

The graph also shows that young buyers also look for aesthetic features like colour. It's not what gets them to buy a DSLR, but attracts them to brand x vs. y. That's Pentax's marketing innovation. People aren't saying "I want a red DSLR". They are saying "I want a DSLR for better quality photos, and I like Pentax's red option. And it's a bit smaller than the Canon."

So my point that price is dominant speaks to the fact that we are likely to see primes in other FL's in the future at lower price points to meet this demand.

This market surge was ONLY made possible by lower camera and lens prices. So why stop and low-end bodies (K-m, K-x, K-r when it replaces the K-x as it will eventually), and kit lenses? Why not a range of DAL primes? Sony and Nikon are thinking that way. but Pentax is known for its primes. The market is, to some extent, moving towards Pentax, which is a good thing.
You may very well be right about where the market is moving, but until this mythical line of DAL primes is introduced into the market - no doubt on the backs of a herd of unicorns - I'll continue to stand by my assertion that the DA L 35/2.4 is a gateway drug to the DA and FA Limiteds. Not to everyone, mind you, but neither do youthful experiments with marijuana turn everyone into street begging crackheads.
09-10-2010, 09:38 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
You may very well be right about where the market is moving, but until this mythical line of DAL primes is introduced into the market - no doubt on the backs of a herd of unicorns - I'll continue to stand by my assertion that the DA L 35/2.4 is a gateway drug to the DA and FA Limiteds. Not to everyone, mind you, but neither do youthful experiments with marijuana turn everyone into street begging crackheads.
Now, now. I can break this Ltd habit anytime I'd like, mind you.
09-10-2010, 11:24 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by wowtip Quote
Now, now. I can break this Ltd habit anytime I'd like, mind you.
Just because you have suffered from the terrible affliction of LBA, does not mean that the buyers of entry-level K-r's are going to get their hit by mortgaging their houses for DA* and Ltd glass. They will mostly buy in their comfort zone.

Because, if no, they can go to the pusher down the street (Nikon Ave. or Sony Blvd.) and get the near same fix more often, for less $$$.

BTW--the release of inexpensive primes indicates that the "truth" many spout about how entry-level buyers from a P&S background only use the kit lens is false. If you provide a prime lens priced near the compulsive buy purchase price, you'll get sales. If you sell entry-level bodies and can make affordable, entry-level primes, you should make and sell those too. BUT...you will cannibalize much of your higher-end sales. This could lead to even more quality differentiation between the models, perhaps based on FF compatibility.

This is likely not the first DAL prime we will see, not when the other brands are releasing small lines of "value series" primes as well.
09-10-2010, 02:37 PM   #59
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I think the 2.4 is a great stepping stone to other lenses. Most consumers are used to 3.5. Giving consumers a cheap prime lens will step them onto other lenses I think. The first time out most will get the mandatory 18-55 and maybe the 50-200 possibly the 55-300, but to have them drop 400-500 or even 1000 on a lens will take some convincing.
09-10-2010, 05:04 PM   #60
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actually when i look at Pentax`s lineup...a USD$220 for a 35mm F/2.4 Prime actually sounds reasonable and thats just the launch price.

Not even Sigma or Tamron has anything fast there now for Pentax.
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