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09-16-2010, 02:26 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pacerr Quote
. . . and downtown a politician tried to pass legislation making the dying of leaves unnatural, illegal and subject to a $100 fine for littering!

H2

Isn't that the truth!

The deer population around here is so large that culling is taking place locally.

Some of my neighbours are having to build deer proof fences to keep them out of gardens, and it's no longer a rare sight to see deer. A few weeks ago I had to stop on a main road right on the edge of a large town to let a herd of over 20 deer cross the road.
Over here there are no predators except man, and venison is wonderful.

I keep trying to get a good picture of them, but they spook so easily. They have their defences perfected.

09-16-2010, 03:00 PM   #17
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I spend a lot of time photographing deer with a DA* 200 mm (check my website), which means that to fill frame, I must be within bow range, and I can assure you they can hear the AF whirr, even though the motor in the lens is quieter than the body. In fact, they spook quicker from the AF than from the shutter, which in the K20D is loud. Although the shutter will spook them sometimes, the AF does every time. It is a very unnatural sound to them. Use MF and time your shot for the best composition, because you may only get one shot. Even if the shutter doesn't spook them outright, they will look toward it and most likely see you. Once you press the shutter, keep shooting rapidly. You can get off many more shots with MF during this time, because the AF doesn't have to refocus. I have gotten off a half-dozen shots from the time they look to when they bolt (not more than a few seconds).
Two other points: In the cluttered scenes where deer roam, AF is unreliable anyway, no matter what camera you use. The camera doesn't know a twig or leaf from a deer, so even if AF was noiseless, MF still would be better. Focus on the animal's eye.
Also you may be disappointed with the shots you get from a tree stand. High vantage points are good for scenic shots, not for wildlife. Shoot from the ground if possible.
This is all much harder than you imagine.

Last edited by Ron Kruger; 09-16-2010 at 03:10 PM. Reason: add info
09-16-2010, 04:02 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
This is all much harder than you imagine.
The trick is you have to convince 'em they're chickadees, Ron! H2
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09-16-2010, 06:26 PM   #19
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Man, and all this time I've been trying to convince them that I'm a chickadee.

09-16-2010, 07:39 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
I spend a lot of time photographing deer with a DA* 200 mm (check my website), which means that to fill frame, I must be within bow range, and I can assure you they can hear the AF whirr, even though the motor in the lens is quieter than the body. In fact, they spook quicker from the AF than from the shutter, which in the K20D is loud. Although the shutter will spook them sometimes, the AF does every time. It is a very unnatural sound to them. Use MF and time your shot for the best composition, because you may only get one shot. Even if the shutter doesn't spook them outright, they will look toward it and most likely see you. Once you press the shutter, keep shooting rapidly. You can get off many more shots with MF during this time, because the AF doesn't have to refocus. I have gotten off a half-dozen shots from the time they look to when they bolt (not more than a few seconds).
Two other points: In the cluttered scenes where deer roam, AF is unreliable anyway, no matter what camera you use. The camera doesn't know a twig or leaf from a deer, so even if AF was noiseless, MF still would be better. Focus on the animal's eye.
Also you may be disappointed with the shots you get from a tree stand. High vantage points are good for scenic shots, not for wildlife. Shoot from the ground if possible.
This is all much harder than you imagine.
Perfectly said. The only thing I'd say about the stand is as the sun rises you might get some great distance shots as deer move in - especially if there's a bit of fog, frost, etc. But, that's always a crap shoot as deer are creatures of the wild and much better at sneaking around than humans ever will be.

Good luck for both you and your hunting partner!
09-16-2010, 08:30 PM   #21
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Is it the deer's fault no predators exist anymore? That's the problem with man. We break it, we fix it by being the predator?
I'll be rooting for the deer. Just to let you know, deer aren't defenseless. More deer hurt man than hunters.
09-17-2010, 06:58 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by troglodyte Quote
Is it the deer's fault no predators exist anymore? That's the problem with man. We break it, we fix it by being the predator?
I'll be rooting for the deer. Just to let you know, deer aren't defenseless. More deer hurt man than hunters.
Many years ago, at the height of anti hunting sentiment, I recall one local paper in toronto posting the score.

Hunters 10, deer 20.

In fact the deer's score was entirely co-lateral damage caused by the hinters. They hit more of themselves than deer.

As for the whole debate, and this is getting off topic, I don;t have an issue with hunters and deer personally providing:

- they actually eat the meat.
- they do not leave the guts, which may include lead from either small shot or splinters of bullets that migrate through the blood into the organs, for other animals and birds to eat (this is what killed off the condors for example)
- they do not take more than they need.

Personally I prefer to "hunt" with a camera as I find it actually harder to get a great shot with a camera (and I have lenses that go out to 500mm) than it is to kill something. That is my personal choice.

The deer population is in many areas out of control to the point where they present a hazard, and if the heard is culled, I don't see any issue with man taking the place of the natural preditors we have already eliminated.

As far as being humane,I would think a hunter is generally more humane than the natural preditors would be.
09-17-2010, 08:09 AM   #23
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It's usually a waste of time to debate with people who have a Disney idea of the natural world, but the bottom line of life is that for you to live, no matter what you eat, something has to die.
Those who claim that "all life is valuable" don't think twice about having their house treated for termites.
We all judge this based upon our own convoluted logic, but in the end, the only things that matter are the people you help and the people you hurt.

09-17-2010, 08:17 AM   #24
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Ok, at this rate, this is going to get moved to off-topic... if it does... oh well... I got my answer... thanks guys...
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