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09-19-2010, 12:16 PM   #16
Ira
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anklee Quote
Then why not buy 1 CPL and 1 ND filter then?
What is exactly the benefit of getting step up ring and bigger filter?
In case you buy a lens or lenses in the future with a bigger filter size than 52, you're cool. Otherwise, you'll have to buy more and bigger filters.

09-19-2010, 12:29 PM   #17
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I'd step back here: what *specific* issue are you seeing with your images that makes you think *any* filter is going to solve?

Don't get me wrong there are some specific things that happen in some specific cases that can be addressed using a filter. So for those few pictures - maybe 5% of what most people shoot - sure, a correctly-chosen and correctly-used filter will help.

But your original question is far more general than that - seems you're thinking that simply screwing on a filter will magically improve all your pictures. It doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, if you don't have hoods for all your lenses, now *those* would be worth getting and using all the time.
09-19-2010, 01:53 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
In case you buy a lens or lenses in the future with a bigger filter size than 52, you're cool. Otherwise, you'll have to buy more and bigger filters.
Great point there! I might get bigger telelens someday, but the problem here is, i don't know what size i'm gonna get... and i would have to get bigger hood too. I think for now 52mm filter is the best choice for me, i'll suffer the consequences later :P


QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I'd step back here: what *specific* issue are you seeing with your images that makes you think *any* filter is going to solve?

Don't get me wrong there are some specific things that happen in some specific cases that can be addressed using a filter. So for those few pictures - maybe 5% of what most people shoot - sure, a correctly-chosen and correctly-used filter will help.

But your original question is far more general than that - seems you're thinking that simply screwing on a filter will magically improve all your pictures. It doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, if you don't have hoods for all your lenses, now *those* would be worth getting and using all the time.
Good question! Let me elaborate. Well i like taking pictures outside, landscape, nature photos and such. I hear CPL can make sky better and remove reflection on water and on some surfaces. Those things might be useful for me, especially removing reflections. I have hoods for all my lenses so it isnt that important to get safety filter.


Everyone has a different opinions on this.. i think i just have to think for myself and choose that what is the best for me. Thanks all for your help.
09-19-2010, 02:46 PM   #19
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It sounds like you have dismissed the thread, but I'm going to pitch a few thoughts your way anyhow.

First, there is no compelling reason to use a circular polarizer on a Pentax DSLR.
A linear polarizer is just fine and you can get a very good one for the same cost as an adequate circular.
A linear polarizer WILL NOT affect metering on any Pentax SLR other than the LX film camera and will most likley have no noticeable effect on auto focus either.
Having said that, I've never found that using a polarizer lends itself well to AF anyway, so any concern in that regard is, for me anyway, moot.

About the only filters I carry these days are polarizing filters. Pretty much any other filter effect can be emulated in post processing.

09-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It sounds like you have dismissed the thread, but I'm going to pitch a few thoughts your way anyhow.

First, there is no compelling reason to use a circular polarizer on a Pentax DSLR.
A linear polarizer is just fine and you can get a very good one for the same cost as an adequate circular.
A linear polarizer WILL NOT affect metering on any Pentax SLR other than the LX film camera and will most likley have no noticeable effect on auto focus either.
Having said that, I've never found that using a polarizer lends itself well to AF anyway, so any concern in that regard is, for me anyway, moot.

About the only filters I carry these days are polarizing filters. Pretty much any other filter effect can be emulated in post processing.
Oh! it doesnt effect AF... I'm glad you told me this. Now i really have to find the truth about this. Maybe i can test those somehow.
As we say in finland: "I'm not gonna buy a piggie in a sack"
09-19-2010, 06:45 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anklee Quote
Oh! it doesnt effect AF... I'm glad you told me this. Now i really have to find the truth about this. Maybe i can test those somehow.
As we say in finland: "I'm not gonna buy a piggie in a sack"
There will be instances when the AF get's blinded, but I've rarely found it to be an issue simply because it is so rare that it happens.
When (If) Pentax goes to a behind the mirror exposure system, then everything will change, but at the moment, there is no beam splitter in the exposure system's light path.

We call it a pig in a poke in Canada.
09-19-2010, 07:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anklee Quote
I'm thinking to up the quality of my photos, so filters might be good way to do that.
I think CPL filter and safety filter would be good choice, so what kind of 52mm filters to get, that would be good for my lenses? (see my sig.)
If you think i should get something else too, please tell me. Thanks.
I decided to go with 58mm filters over 49mm or 52mm and grabbed a collapsible rubber hood for my lenses. I almost always have the CPL on whatever lense is mounted and keep the rubber hood on the CPL. If I want to add the ND filter I unscrew the CPL/hood combo, mount the ND filter (or other filter) then re-attach the CPL/hood combo. So far so good or me...

Th reason I went with the 58mm filters was it just gives me a bit more in the way of lense coverage. Of course I have step-up rings for my 49mm and 52mm lenses but those are inexpensive.

BTW, you might have a look at the Marumi DHG CPL...I find it a super CPL, easy to clean (unlike the Hoya filters) and a nice value and no difference in IQ from the Hoya but that is pretty subjective for most of us...I shoot a lot of glassware so I use my CPL a lot to help clean up the shots and get better color, yeah it does have an effect close to that when using one to shoot through water, who knew?
09-20-2010, 08:21 AM   #23
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Thank you for great insights. Now i have to start looking for what kind of LP i want to buy.
Maybe i'll go for 52mm -> 58mm step up ring, 58mm LP and a cap for it.

09-20-2010, 11:35 AM   #24
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fun...shopping is the cool part then after that comes the endorphin release when you press the "buy/checkout/authorize card" button...

And that is what I did, a larger filter, but not so large the filters get super spendy...the step-up rings actually work to make a bit of a "hood" extension as well, especially when I have a 49-52 attached to a 52-58mm ring...and while the rubber hood does offer a bit less lense protection, the filters and rings seem to cover a good part of that added protection for the front element. I think for my step-up rings and hood I spent around $12 including shipping from China.

FYI, I find a CPL does make a difference in that rotating it is easy because you don't loosed the filter to vary the degree of blocking or for times when the light needing blocked is other than 90-degrees from your camera orientation...that is the whole point of the CPL, being able to adapt to the angle of the light for which you are trying to compensate. Still LP's are INEXPENSIVE and a nice place to begin. I paid $35US new for my Marumi DHG CPL...including shipping.

Have FUN...
09-21-2010, 05:03 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anklee Quote
If you think i should get something else too, please tell me. Thanks.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
About the only filters I carry these days are polarizing filters. Pretty much any other filter effect can be emulated in post processing.
Besides polarization, some effects CAN'T be emulated well in PP. Omega Leader mentioned stacking PLs or CPLs to get variable ND (neutral density) filtration. ND's cut light so you can use slower shutter speeds, very handy when shooting flowing fluids. An extreme ND can cause exposures of many minutes or hours, which turns all moving objects INVISIBLE. You want an empty city? Take a 3-hour exposure.

Then there's GND, graduated ND, where half the filter is dark, and half ain't. Use for shooting dark foregrounds below bright skies, etc. A central GND is darkest in the center, useful for shots into the sun or a bright light. GND effects *can* be emulated in PP, but usually by stacking images as in HDR. A GND gives you that effect in single handheld shots, not the tripodded multiples of HDR.

Conceptually similar to GND is the split-diopter, where half the filter magnifies and the other half don't. This can be used to effectively extend DOF greatly. As with GND, you must position the transition zone carefully. Again, this effect *can* be emulated in PP, but usually by stitching images. At least the stitched shots don't *need* to be tripodded.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The other filters I use are more specialized, and deal with isolating / enhancing certain spectra of light, what I call "spectrum-slicing".

* Use IR-pass filters to block some or all visible light and explore the infrared.

* Use violet|blue filters to block all other colors, to emulate early photographic emulsions that only saw 'actinic' light (UV-violet-blue). Cf orthochromatic.

* Use a Yellow filter when shooting glaring neon lights at night, for strange color shifts.

* Use a Red filter to improve resolution when shooting B&W.

* Use combinations of B&W filters (Yellow, Orange, Red, Green, Blue) for tonal effects when shooting B&W.

Yes, some of these effects *can* be emulated in PP; but IR, and Red's resolution improvement, can't; and the Yellow-Neon effect is tricky to replicate. And it's FUN to experiment with different cheap old B&W and CC (color-correction) filters. It can be done live-in-the-field, without waiting to get back to your computer. Fun fun fun...
09-30-2010, 09:13 AM   #26
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How effective are to Polarization filters as a ND filter? (isn't that unhandy for manual metering...)
- I at least need to get a IR-pass filter

Do you have examples of the other color filters?
- Wait, also the IR-pass filter would be nice to see (and get advice which to get)
09-30-2010, 12:29 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Besides polarization, some effects CAN'T be emulated well in PP. Omega Leader mentioned stacking PLs or CPLs to get variable ND (neutral density) filtration. ND's cut light so you can use slower shutter speeds, very handy when shooting flowing fluids. An extreme ND can cause exposures of many minutes or hours, which turns all moving objects INVISIBLE. You want an empty city? Take a 3-hour exposure.

Then there's GND, graduated ND, where half the filter is dark, and half ain't. Use for shooting dark foregrounds below bright skies, etc. A central GND is darkest in the center, useful for shots into the sun or a bright light. GND effects *can* be emulated in PP, but usually by stacking images as in HDR. A GND gives you that effect in single handheld shots, not the tripodded multiples of HDR.

Conceptually similar to GND is the split-diopter, where half the filter magnifies and the other half don't. This can be used to effectively extend DOF greatly. As with GND, you must position the transition zone carefully. Again, this effect *can* be emulated in PP, but usually by stitching images. At least the stitched shots don't *need* to be tripodded.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The other filters I use are more specialized, and deal with isolating / enhancing certain spectra of light, what I call "spectrum-slicing".

* Use IR-pass filters to block some or all visible light and explore the infrared.

* Use violet|blue filters to block all other colors, to emulate early photographic emulsions that only saw 'actinic' light (UV-violet-blue). Cf orthochromatic.

* Use a Yellow filter when shooting glaring neon lights at night, for strange color shifts.

* Use a Red filter to improve resolution when shooting B&W.

* Use combinations of B&W filters (Yellow, Orange, Red, Green, Blue) for tonal effects when shooting B&W.

Yes, some of these effects *can* be emulated in PP; but IR, and Red's resolution improvement, can't; and the Yellow-Neon effect is tricky to replicate. And it's FUN to experiment with different cheap old B&W and CC (color-correction) filters. It can be done live-in-the-field, without waiting to get back to your computer. Fun fun fun...
Very nice summary showing that filters can and are still relevant in this digital era. Something too is you pretty much cannot emulate the results of an IR-Cut filter used if your ND filter setup has too much IR leakage and the camera's weak-ish IR-cut filter (sorry I forget the exact name of that part of the setup in the camera but you get the idea, I hope??) in front of the sensor itself does not handle what IR is let through the ND filter.
09-30-2010, 12:35 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
How effective are to Polarization filters as a ND filter? (isn't that unhandy for manual metering...)
- I at least need to get a IR-pass filter

Do you have examples of the other color filters?
- Wait, also the IR-pass filter would be nice to see (and get advice which to get)
I have tried it with a Linear Polarizer and a CPL...it does work but eh, since I was able to get a very good deal on my 58mm B&W #110 I just took that route. I still have the LP and my Marumi DHG CPL so I can somewhat get it to work...

As to AF, I never have run into AF problems, even with the #110 AND my CPL which gives me somewhere between 10-12 stops.

btw, the filter I REALLY want but it costs near what a new lense would is the Singh-Ray Blue-Gold CPL. I just sit in awe of the results people get from that beastie...I almost dropped in a snipe on one listed on eBay a few weeks ago but really it would not have been the responsible thing for me right now. Hard to justify a $300 filter right now, but it would get me using the camera more I can say that.
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