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09-25-2010, 06:16 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Please do not presume to judge or understand me, since obviously you cannot. Your pathetic attempt at insults is noted, but beyond that you have an awful lot to learn about photography. Owning these lenses is not about bragging -- it's about taking better pictures. Duh!
(In all modesty, because I really have a lot to learn about photography, and apparently I'm incapable of understanding your photographic holiness)

If Pentax doesn't have a FF body, it makes no sense to produce lenses for this format, right?

Now, if it wasn't about bragging and really about quality, the ones sad with the discontinuity would be demanding from Pentax that the new DA Ltds. have to match the same standards. Which they won't. They will just whine on how they don't produce it anymore.

Perceptions of quality have more emotion thrown in than anything else.

09-25-2010, 06:17 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Do we need to get so worked up over the comments of a German member? I had a Pentax user training session yesterday and we had the local Pentax agent present and there was no indication that any of the FA Limiteds were disappearing. I'll believe it when Pentax Japan comes out with a press release...

Everyone can mitigate by going out and buying an FA Limited tomorrow, that way the sudden surge in demand will make the idea of discontinuing the FA Limiteds a bad one.
Everyone do that! I can't get the ones I need yet! My poor back needs the film compatibility and a 31 and a 77!

Oh. One guy somewhere 'said.' Does seem a lot of sabotagey-sounding rumors seem to flood whenever new Pentax models come out.

(And, btw, it makes *lots* of sense to keep making those lenses, hcarval: cause they still work *great,* people still want them, and new designs aren't coming with great frequency, anyway. Not the *least* because one of the big draws to Pentax is still the legacy bodies and glass. If you want to keep shooting film, your options are limited if you don't want to carry two whole separate sets of glass around. Most of the other options than Pentax really mean you're hoping electronic film bodies that aren't being produced anymore and pretty much 'can't be fixed' won't develop unrecoverable errors or just break, or toting some really big and pricey things just to keep that compatibility. People talk a lot as if they have a bigger stake in the marketing and tech competition than the photography, but Pentax has always had this certain segment for those who know what they want and want *this,* as well as 'serious students.' And that's actually where a lot of us come from. If I'd had money for a whole new system just to plunk down, then Nikon would likely have gotten me (Cause in part there were some pretty sweet Nikkors about that I could have had for myself if I could have gone that way: otherwise it'd have been a decision,) I'd be toting like an FE2 and a d300, ..but that would have been like a grand more just to get hold of a body that could work reasonably with the old stuff: the options with what I had were a lovely K20d and an FA 50, or like a used D70 and a kit lens, maybe a 50 1.8 that wouldn't meter, ...and hope to be able to buy it all again later for an upgrade I'd have been crying out for every day I'd been shooting.

Maybe I'm not the big money customer marketing people salivate over, but, I'm a customer, and a pretty happy one. People are impressed with what I do, sometimes, and then maybe want the same sort of stuff. Pentax has a name, and they should keep living up to it: where they had problems was for one, not having the digital tech, which even Nikon was behind on for a long while, and for another, having eroded the brand image too much by trying to be too trendy, I think.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 09-25-2010 at 06:53 PM.
09-25-2010, 06:19 PM   #48
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Exactly

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
For anyone discerning about the rendering quality of lenses and what they can do for your photography, Pentax had one thing to offer that no other company or brand did... the FA Limiteds. Their desire to drop the most distinguished series indicates to me that they are not the company I need to ally with in my photographic journey.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

NaCl(from the past week's news, it looks like Pentax doesn't care anymore)H2O
09-25-2010, 06:35 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
If the death of the trio means new better primes than im all for it
Fast, smaller, lighter new "DFA" LTD designs? If so, I agree, I'm in immediately!...

09-25-2010, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
(In all modesty, because I really have a lot to learn about photography, and apparently I'm incapable of understanding your photographic holiness)

If Pentax doesn't have a FF body, it makes no sense to produce lenses for this format, right?

Now, if it wasn't about bragging and really about quality, the ones sad with the discontinuity would be demanding from Pentax that the new DA Ltds. have to match the same standards. Which they won't. They will just whine on how they don't produce it anymore.

Perceptions of quality have more emotion thrown in than anything else.
First of all. The FA Ltds work very well indeed on digital bodies. If they didn't nobody would be upset.
Secondly why demand Pentax produce a DA ltd of the same quality when they have the original FA ltds? Why re-invent the wheel?
Thirdly, Mike Johnson, a highly respected photographic blogger and professional photographer in his own right, once called the FA ltds "the finest autofocus lenses money can buy" Mike Johnson btw, primarily shoots Nikon.
sm-02-05-02
Finally, for many Pentax faithful, the FA ltds are the epitome of what Pentax is all about, small, fast, jewel-like prime lenses with incredible, magical IQ. Why would you want to give up your signature?

If this rumor is true, it will be like rparmar, deadwolfbones, pcarfan and so many others have said.

NaCl( "this is an incredible, almost criminal blunder" )H2O
09-25-2010, 06:54 PM   #51
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I don't believe this for an instant, unless they are going to be redesigned as weather sealed lenses with quick shift and maybe in lens motors. The concept of just ditching some of Pentax's highest end, most accoladed lenses is crazy.
09-25-2010, 07:07 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
First of all. The FA Ltds work very well indeed on digital bodies. If they didn't nobody would be upset.
Secondly why demand Pentax produce a DA ltd of the same quality when they have the original FA ltds? Why re-invent the wheel?
Thirdly, Mike Johnson, a highly respected photographic blogger and professional photographer in his own right, once called the FA ltds "the finest autofocus lenses money can buy" Mike Johnson btw, primarily shoots Nikon.
sm-02-05-02
Finally, for many Pentax faithful, the FA ltds are the epitome of what Pentax is all about, small, fast, jewel-like prime lenses with incredible, magical IQ. Why would you want to give up your signature?

If this rumor is true, it will be like rparmar, deadwolfbones, pcarfan and so many others have said.

NaCl( "this is an incredible, almost criminal blunder" )H2O
Well, but can't they recycle the recipe (optical, construction) with an adequate size for APS-C? After all, it's a waste of money and resources to make it for a bigger format if it ends cropped. This could well end on making great lenses that are actually cheaper and sell more - which, if the rumor is true, could be one of the causes for dropping it's production.
09-25-2010, 07:10 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
First of all. The FA Ltds work very well indeed on digital bodies. If they didn't nobody would be upset.
Secondly why demand Pentax produce a DA ltd of the same quality when they have the original FA ltds? Why re-invent the wheel?
That's very true.

(Frankly, it seems that the other brands are the ones who had to say 'Lenses must be designed for digital' because *their digital sensors couldn't/can't seem to un*ahem* themselves to render an image properly that way. Pentax never seems to have had this problem, between their coatings and sensor designs. I mean, it works, right? I've got a kind of ambitious ol' Sigma full-frame kinda-fast wide-to-tele (a 28-105 2.8-4,) serving as a poor gal's Tammie 28-75, that can get a bit temperamental in the bright, but still is pretty darn impressive compared to expectations (And sometimes makes images I'm *really* impressed with. ) 'Designed for digital?'

Less of a factor for Pentaxians, it'd seem.


QuoteQuote:
Thirdly, Mike Johnson, a highly respected photographic blogger and professional photographer in his own right, once called the FA ltds "the finest autofocus lenses money can buy" Mike Johnson btw, primarily shoots Nikon.


Yeah, and for some folks, really, the epitome of the perfect kit is, a couple of smallish, solid goes-anywhere bodies (Hopefully with wonderful, precise VF's, btw, Pentax, ) that don't get in your way, and a few key primes that are the best obtainable. The rest being negotiable.

09-25-2010, 07:16 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Well, but can't they recycle the recipe (optical, construction) with an adequate size for APS-C? After all, it's a waste of money and resources to make it for a bigger format if it ends cropped. This could well end on making great lenses that are actually cheaper and sell more - which, if the rumor is true, could be one of the causes for dropping it's production.
Why do that? It won't save anything, it still has to fit the K-mount. The savings in materiel if they exsist at all would be negligible.

NaCl(if it ain't broke, don't fix it)H2O
09-25-2010, 07:57 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
While I understand the sentiment about the FA limiteds, I just don't see how their discontinuation will lead to the death of Pentax. I'd bet that less than 5% of new Pentax users (i.e., those that became a Pentaxian after, say, the K-7 and K-m) have every bought an FA limited lens. And it makes sense; why would they spend $$$ on lenses with dated designs (definitely not designed for digital sensors), that are large and heavy compared to the DA limiteds? The answer is, they wouldn't.


The simple fact that they are discontinuing the line is the proof. They had to raise the price of FA limiteds across the board, and they *still* are going to discontinue them. What does that mean? It means the FA limited weren't selling. At all. So, contrary to what the marketing experts here think, it's the *continuation* of the FA limited line that would put Pentax in financial jeopardy, not the other way around.

Regarding replacements; I think it's going to be one or the other. They already have a pretty impressive lineup of DA limited primes (15, 21, 40, 70) and non-limited DA primes (14, 35, 100 macro). The only thing really missig are the super-fast primes. For that, there will be the DA* primes. Currently there's only one, 55/1.4, which effectively replaces the 77/1.8 (and 1/2 stop faster to boot). I think at some point, they'll make a DA* 30/1.4. Frankly, I don't think there's much else that's needed.
Small correction, the DA35 IS a limited lens.

09-25-2010, 08:03 PM - 1 Like   #56
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I realize that this is just a rumor, but I'd like to share my perspective as someone who only became interested in Pentax in the last 3-4 months.

When I was researching getting into a DSLR in general and Pentax in particular earlier this year, I started learning about their lens selection. I was initially interested in a K-x, but I wanted to be sure that Pentax had a good selection of lenses. The first places I spent a lot of time with were B&H, the DPR forum, and Pentax's website. I saw the FA section at pentaximaging.com and I didn't really understand what they were for or why they were still made. Later I started seeing threads at DPR that were dedicated to the 43 or 77 and I realized how popular they were. Seeing some of those series was ultimately why I chose to buy a K-7 over a D90. A thread by jsherman/moving_comfort called "Summer of 77" was particularly influential in my decision. The sharpness and color from the 77 especially removed any doubt that Pentax had good lenses.

Since I knew Pentax still made FA lenses, but didn't have a full frame DSLR, I figured they still made recent film SLRs. Out of curiosity, I went back to Pentax's website to see what their current film bodies looked like. When I discovered that they no longer made any film SLRs, it really clicked that Pentax was an APS-C only company. Even the product design of the FAs made me start thinking that they were older models that were only still available "while supplies last."

With more research, I found out the reputation and capabilities of all of the FA Limiteds, and figured that if they were still in production it was just because they were established designs that were still popular on APS-C. My impression was that most of the lenses with an F in the name would soon be unavailable. When I started seeing the FA31 out of stock for months at B&H and Adorama, I assumed that was how lenses disappeared. They would just become unavailable without any formal announcement that they were out of production.

I would be really disappointed if they do discontinue the FA Limiteds. I had in mind that I would get one or more of them eventually, but I've had the impression that they are lenses for more advanced users. I didn't want to spend the money on them too early on and not get the kind of results I've seen from them. But I've had a nagging feeling like I better grab all the FA's I might want soon because they might not be around much longer. I just got an FA35/2 because it seemed to be a better general purpose normal lens than the DA35/2.8. If Pentax would discontinue the FA35/2, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FA Limiteds are next.

After I bought my K-7 and started reading this forum more, I was really surprised by all of the constant discussion about a FF announcement. It seemed pretty obvious from a new user's perspective that Pentax just didn't do that and had no plans to. I couldn't see anything in their current product line that would lend itself to making people think they were about to, other than perhaps wishful thinking. From what I've seen so far this year, Pentax's actual direction and what the enthusiast community wants them to do don't seem to be aligned well. As ludicrous as it seems to discontinue the FA Limiteds, should we really be that surprised when it does happen?
09-25-2010, 08:21 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Why do that? It won't save anything, it still has to fit the K-mount. The savings in materiel if they exsist at all would be negligible.

NaCl(if it ain't broke, don't fix it)H2O
If the FA Ltds.:

1. Are amazing
2. Are not more expensive to produce
3. Are obviously used in digital bodies

Then, why would Pentax drop it's production? From all I'm seeing on this thread, it should be selling like hot bread. If the rumor is right, then it obviously isn't, or the production is costly, or both. On top of it, they are only releasing APS-C and everything hints about not having a FF anytime soon, so why keep producing an old design? That's what I can think off my head of a decision like this, other than ruling it out as "Pentax is dumb".

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 09-25-2010 at 08:26 PM.
09-25-2010, 08:24 PM   #58
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My God Almighty, the sky is falling!!!!!

Slow down for a moment.
The 77 is nice, but so is the 70. I rarely use my 77 since getting the 70. I just plain like the 70 better. I bet my 77 hasn't been on a camera in over a year.
The 43 is nice, but people rave about the 40. I have the 40, it's very nice, nice enough that the 43 never beckoned.
The 31 is nice, I'm glad I have one, but the 35 Macro is the lens that is on my camera right now, and they 31 is in storage, has been since this spring.
Perhaps this will free things up so that they can enhance the mid range telephoto line up.
Anyone ever notice that there is nothing but a fat macro between 70mm and 200mm?
How about between 21 and 31 (now 35)mm?

In an attempt to be a glass half full kind of guy, I'm hoping that this is good news.
Consider that the last Pentax film SLR rolled off the assembly line some 5 years ago, IIRC. The FA lenses have had a good run, they went longer than the K lenses and the M lenses combined.
Is there any surprise that they would eventually stop producing the last of the film SLR lenses?
Anyone who wants to own a piece of Pentax history, better step up to the plate sooner rather than later.
Anyone who just wants to take good pictures, the lens line hasn't weakened. What's available is still gonna make nice pictures.
09-25-2010, 08:25 PM   #59
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well i'm sure glad I bought my FA31mm f/1.8 and FA77 f/1.8 limited lenses when I did. I use them a lot on my film cameras and they are superb in every respect.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
What's available is still gonna make nice pictures.
exactly and we still do have the older legacy lenses to fall back on. In terms of catastrophic business decisions, this is just another pinch of salt in the sea, Pentax is merely attempting to optimise their lens selection for APS-C cameras. If Pentax radially changed the K mount making all our lenses useless then that would be a Serious blunder.

Last edited by Digitalis; 09-25-2010 at 08:30 PM.
09-25-2010, 08:26 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by clutch Quote
I realize that this is just a rumor, but I'd like to share my perspective as someone who only became interested in Pentax in the last 3-4 months.

When I was researching getting into a DSLR in general and Pentax in particular earlier this year, I started learning about their lens selection. I was initially interested in a K-x, but I wanted to be sure that Pentax had a good selection of lenses. The first places I spent a lot of time with were B&H, the DPR forum, and Pentax's website. I saw the FA section at pentaximaging.com and I didn't really understand what they were for or why they were still made. Later I started seeing threads at DPR that were dedicated to the 43 or 77 and I realized how popular they were. Seeing some of those series was ultimately why I chose to buy a K-7 over a D90. A thread by jsherman/moving_comfort called "Summer of 77" was particularly influential in my decision. The sharpness and color from the 77 especially removed any doubt that Pentax had good lenses.

Since I knew Pentax still made FA lenses, but didn't have a full frame DSLR, I figured they still made recent film SLRs. Out of curiosity, I went back to Pentax's website to see what their current film bodies looked like. When I discovered that they no longer made any film SLRs, it really clicked that Pentax was an APS-C only company. Even the product design of the FAs made me start thinking that they were older models that were only still available "while supplies last."

With more research, I found out the reputation and capabilities of all of the FA Limiteds, and figured that if they were still in production it was just because they were established designs that were still popular on APS-C. My impression was that most of the lenses with an F in the name would soon be unavailable. When I started seeing the FA31 out of stock for months at B&H and Adorama, I assumed that was how lenses disappeared. They would just become unavailable without any formal announcement that they were out of production.

I would be really disappointed if they do discontinue the FA Limiteds. I had in mind that I would get one or more of them eventually, but I've had the impression that they are lenses for more advanced users. I didn't want to spend the money on them too early on and not get the kind of results I've seen from them. But I've had a nagging feeling like I better grab all the FA's I might want soon because they might not be around much longer. I just got an FA35/2 because it seemed to be a better general purpose normal lens than the DA35/2.8. If Pentax would discontinue the FA35/2, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FA Limiteds are next.

After I bought my K-7 and started reading this forum more, I was really surprised by all of the constant discussion about a FF announcement. It seemed pretty obvious from a new user's perspective that Pentax just didn't do that and had no plans to. I couldn't see anything in their current product line that would lend itself to making people think they were about to, other than perhaps wishful thinking. From what I've seen so far this year, Pentax's actual direction and what the enthusiast community wants them to do don't seem to be aligned well. As ludicrous as it seems to discontinue the FA Limiteds, should we really be that surprised when it does happen?
+1

Not only that your point of view is refreshing, but I was just as equally impressed with your writing. You write beautifully.

A point of like yours is something that veteran Pentax users ought to be exposed to from time to time. It is very difficult to see how it is sometimes when you are in knee deep.

I agree with you that we should not be surprised; and I actually am not if this is true. It is very much a Pentax-like move that we are also used to seeing. We can get upset and all, but this company does what it wants to while claiming that they listen to the users (and to a certain extent they do). They seem to have their reasons and we have no choice but to go along with it, or to jump ship.
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