[SteveM]

Well, but can't they recycle the recipe (optical, construction) with an adequate size for APS-C? After all, it's a waste of money and resources to make it for a bigger format if it ends cropped. This could well end on making great lenses that are actually cheaper and sell more - which, if the rumor is true, could be one of the causes for dropping it's production.

Because APS-C is fine for today but is quite frankly the Polaroid Instamatic of 2012. Which do you want to align yourself with?

[John Poirier]

I found this out from my good friend emr today. Blonde8 has reported in Falconeye's photokina thread that FA ltds have died, and nothing in plan to replace them.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/115076-pentax-photokin...k-lumo-27.html



This needs to be talked about.


1) Is Pentax abandoning the high end of the market? This success of K-x may have put them in that frame of mind, or that this was the segment of market they were after all along, and they finally hit it. They seem fixated on entry level folks.

2) Sure, K-5 looks fine, to me it is half ass. Well over a year from K-7 and that is all they can do??

3) No FF for sure now, for the next couple of years. Well, fine.

4) Zeiss also ditched ZK mount. We are running out of options in terms of fast primes. Legacy lenses are great, but I feel they can only go so far in the hands of mortals like me.

5) Suddenly, their line up looks like shit.

6) FA ltds will probably go up in price, kind of like it did a few years back when the rumor of their demise was rampant. But, I am not sure if they would hold their value. Too many of them around. But, FA ltds are FA ltds. They are (were) great. So, do some of you plan to go ahead and still plan to buy them even though no FF in horizon?

7) Is this the end for some of us?? What does this mean to all of you?? Does this change your feeling towards Pentax? It sure has for me. It makes me wonder for the first time if I should sell everything I have and just go ahead and get 645D.

8) To me this is a sad development.

Oh well. I guess I'll just have to continue not buying them.

[hcarvalhoalves]

Because APS-C is fine for today but is quite frankly the Polaroid Instamatic of 2012. Which do you want to align yourself with?

But who guarantees the next generation of sensors will necessarily match the 35mm format, specially considering that Pentax uses Sony sensors, and they are dropping production of their FF ones? For all I know, they can keep the APS-C format forever as long as they can increase CMOS pixel density, or switch to systems like Foveon, without changes on the actual physical size.

[clutch]

Slow down for a moment. The 77 is nice, but so is the 70. I rarely use my 77 since getting the 70. I just plain like the 70 better. I bet my 77 hasn't been on a camera in over a year. The 43 is nice, but people rave about the 40. I have the 40, it's very nice, nice enough that the 43 never beckoned. The 31 is nice, I'm glad I have one, but the 35 Macro is the lens that is on my camera right now, and they 31 is in storage, has been since this spring.

That's a very good observation, Wheatfield. I've gotten the impression of the FA Limiteds as requiring some experience to get results from. The reviews for them in the database mention that you can't always get the "pixie dust" out of them. When the conditions are just right, you get magic, but not consistently. I also get the impression that the DA40 and DA70 more consistently provide the best results they are capable of. Granted I don't own any of them. That's just my impression from reading reviews and looking at sharpness graphs.

I think most of my disappointment is because the FA Limiteds are something to aspire to. I got into Pentax specifically because of the results I've seen from them. But honestly I've had a hard time fitting them into a plan for what lenses I want and when. My FA35 satisfies what I wanted in a normal, and I haven't needed a dedicated portrait lens yet. If I ever really want an FA43 I doubt it will be that difficult to obtain a used one in mint condition.

Not only that your point of view is refreshing, but I was just as equally impressed with your writing. You write beautifully.

Thank you very much, Nubi. I've been thinking about some of this for awhile and this latest uproar seemed like a good time to share.

We can get upset and all, but this company does what it wants to while claiming that they listen to the users (and to a certain extent they do). They seem to have their reasons and we have no choice but to go along with it, or to jump ship.

I've found that a lot of the entertainment value of this forum is all of the attempts at predicting Hoya's next moves. Corporations in general seem to make decisions that are baffling to everyone but a select few executives at the top. Trying to predict (or direct) the actions of a Japanese multinational seems as futile as reading the thoughts of humpback whales. There's some sort of intelligence there, but it's absolutely incomprehensible.

[RawheaD]

Guys, it's friggin' simple. If the FA limiteds are such a treasure, why haven't you guys gone out and bought them all already? You guys should have foregone the urge to upgrade your bodies every other year, and plunked down the cash so that you'd have these oh-so-precious, irreplaceable gems on your istDS. But you didn't. And now you're whining?


I don't know if this rumor is true, and if it's not, I think that's GREAT. I loved the FA31Lim I had, and I agree, it is one of the best lenses I've ever had the opportunity shooting with.

HOWEVER. The simple fact is this: *IF* they are truly discontiniuing the line, there's only one reason why they're doing it. And, contrary to what you whining people are suggesting, it's not because they're stupid, or they pay no respect to their users. The reason is *YOU*. It's because *YOU* haven't gone out and bought those lenses. The line is not making Pentax any money, and that is why they're discontinuing it.

How can you expect them to bleed money to continue a line, just so that you guys can *aspire to purchase them one day... maybe.... when you're rich....*????


I'm sad as anybody to see the FA limiteds go (if they really do). But there's really nobody to blame but yourselves.

[xjjohnno]

Well I just lashed out for my first FA Ltd, the 77 f1.8, yet to be delivered so I really can't say one way or another if I'm being deprived of the option of owning Pentax exotica. Am I crying because the line is discontinued, nup. And in a lot of ways I agree with Rawhead. There's not a lot of point in producing exotica if very few buy it. They also open up the option for developing new lenses to suit the cameras they currently produce and not the cameras some claim they wish Pentax would produce being the FF cameras. Realistically a FF digital Pentax would not be a cheap buy so think about whether the surplus cash is going to be there if they did offer such a beastie.

[Boris]

(2) There is absolutely NO way anybody could have reasonably expected Pentax to design *new* FA limiteds. That's absurd. They don't have a FF DSLR, and as far as we know, they don't plan to have one any time soon.

Makes perfect sense to me. What would be the target audience of such design? Why waste R&D and production resources on something that does not really fit anything that Pentax is offering right now.

[Boris]

Slow down for a moment.
The 77 is nice, but so is the 70. I rarely use my 77 since getting the 70. I just plain like the 70 better. I bet my 77 hasn't been on a camera in over a year.
The 43 is nice, but people rave about the 40. I have the 40, it's very nice, nice enough that the 43 never beckoned.
The 31 is nice, I'm glad I have one, but the 35 Macro is the lens that is on my camera right now, and they 31 is in storage, has been since this spring.

That's one of so many points of view each valid in its own context. I've all three FA limiteds (you know that already, don't you, Bill? ) and I am considering offering them up for sale. In fact, since I bought A 50/1.2 slightly more than two years ago, all my shots that I really like were made with that lens.

Presently, a thought of thinning my cabinet down to absolute minimum I need seems like a good proposition. I have invested too much money into this hobby and I may want to recover as much as possible.

And no, the sky is not falling. In fact, sky is never falling. It is just a matter of individual decision how to proceed, where to put one's money, how to develop one's photography, etc.

[TOUGEFC]

I guess in the future, IF Pentax decide on making a FF dslr they could reproduce them again maybe, but will they be the same, worse or better? I wouldnt hold my breathe for it.

[Boris]

HOWEVER. The simple fact is this: *IF* they are truly discontiniuing the line, there's only one reason why they're doing it. And, contrary to what you whining people are suggesting, it's not because they're stupid, or they pay no respect to their users. The reason is *YOU*. It's because *YOU* haven't gone out and bought those lenses. The line is not making Pentax any money, and that is why they're discontinuing it.

Right. I bought FA 43 and FA 77 used, then FA 31 brand new, and finally another FA 43 brand new when I broke my (used) FA 43. Makes my conscience clear, sort of.

Many of us here are not all that worried about not being able to get them in the near future. The same goes for the Zeiss ZK line up. Sure, we may not be able to find a spanking new, not yet out of the box copy, but we will find them. No problem.

To me, the issue is entirely different, not that quite simple, and goes way beyond that. Those of you who understand it, you understand it. If you happened to not get it, well then that is ok too. We all have different needs, different brain mass. That is why pictures we take with similar equipments vary so greatly from one to another.

[uccemebug]

The line is not making Pentax any money, and that is why they're discontinuing it.

Occam's razor!

I've been thinking about some of this for awhile and this latest uproar seemed like a good time to share.

Thanks for doing so. I guess I'll do the same. What I say below is something I've been thinking about for a couple of weeks.

The FA Ltd lenses have a fine optical reputation but they're dated and expensive. It could be that they've simply cancelled them, but there is one possible future for the designs (this is the rampant speculation part). I've noticed that Tokina currently doesn't have many primes. Hoya could
+ put updated autofocus motors in the FA Ltd designs, and perhaps a plastic-fantastic look that everyone seems to want these days
+ build them for Tokina
+ Tokina sells them for the various mounts (even PK)

That of course presupposes that the designs are even worth repositioning. But it gives Hoya access to a market far larger than they've currently got. The designs are proven and have a fine reputation. Why not see how they sell? I'm sure Tokina wouldn't mind the augmentation of their product line.

[SteveM]

My thought...do you want to spend a lot of money aligning yourself with a pink lens dispensed from a gumball machine?

I have hope that in 6 months we'll see something released from Hoya that shows some thought beyond an uneducated sales department. If not.....it will prove that Pentax has become quite "dumbed down".

[Boris]

The FA Ltd lenses have a fine optical reputation but they're dated and expensive. It could be that they've simply cancelled them, but there is one possible future for the designs (this is the rampant speculation part). I've noticed that Tokina currently doesn't have many primes. Hoya could ...

Surely the FA limiteds design know-how is here to stay. Why speculate though? This way or another these lenses will stay for quite a while either "in person" or indirectly by yielding some of their "internal organs" to their siblings...

[Boris]

I have hope that in 6 months we'll see something released from Hoya that shows some thought beyond an uneducated sales department. If not.....it will prove that Pentax has become quite "dumbed down".

With all due respect, SMC, sir, it is not the barrel color that matters, but the bank account balance. If by the time you indicated Pentax sustains market share growth, stock appreciation, etc, then it would be possible to say that they have "smarted up" just as well.

And I also might opine here that neither what you say nor what I say contradict one another. Pentax has been acquired by Hoya and it shows in all so many ways and guises. Whether personally you or personally I will like it or not is of little importance. It is not equal to zero but it is really small factor. If for one disheartened "old way" follower Pentax gain 100 "pink way" fans, who are we to pass the judgment on it? We may however vote with our credit cards...