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09-27-2010, 12:42 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Sigma 70-200/2.8 APO EX user impressions

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Note: this is a continuation of the discussion at https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/72242-sigma-70...ty-test-7.html regarding the older, non-HSM, non-Macro version of the Sigma 70-200/2.8.

Since that thread deals with the newer, Macro + HSM version of the Sigma 70-200/2.8, I thought it would be better to start a new thread rather than potentially confusing readers who aren't aware of the distinction between the two versions.
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This is my review of the Sigma 70-200/2.8 APO EX - this is the original incarnation of this lens, before the versions with DG coatings, "macro" designation, HSM, and now, OS and FLD. Like many "pro" lenses of that era, this lens feels solidly built (and comes with the associated heft).

I'll jump right to the "important" points (but if you have questions about any aspects of this lens, feel free to ask)...

Overall, performance is very good from 70 - 200mm, with perhaps the shorter end being a bit stronger. Wide-open at 70mm it's not as sharp as my DA70, but you wouldn't know it unless you directly compared the two. At 200mm, it gives my FA*200/2.8 a run for its money (in most situations). The Sigma has a lot less CA and I haven't noticed any PF so far - these were my biggest complaints about the FA*200. The bokeh is also quite nice, especially at 200mm.

The main weakness of the Sigma appears to be performance wide-open at MFD (minimum focusing distance). Here, things take on a "dreamy" look - by this I mean that there is haloing around high-contrast edges. Actually, it's only the OOF edges that do this - the in-focus edges seem to be fine. That said, stopped down a bit things do get much better. As is also the case once you back up.

This weakness is a bit surprising given the rather large MFD to begin with, but the newer "Macro" versions of this lens (which have a smaller MFD) are also not great up close so it must be a characteristic of this lens' fundamental design. The lesson here is if you need to shoot small things close-up, get a dedicated macro lens.

Thinking about it some more, I was using this lens with an old Hoya HMC UV filter that's not in the best shape (shows some fine scratches) and might've also needed a cleaning. This might have contributed to the problem, but I doubt it was 100% responsible (*).

Here are some shots at 200mm to illustrate the points above. These are resized versions of the JPGs from the camera (natural tone setting and fine sharpness +1). These were resized using Irfanview and could probably use a bit more sharpening, but they should give you a good idea. I'll also provide links to the original versions for those of you who wish to take a critical look.

We'll start off with some shots at f2.8 and typical shooting distances.



A non-sharpened 100% crop of the above - what do you think?











And lastly (click here for original):



The next set of shots illustrate the performance at MFD.

MFD and f5.6 - looks pretty good (click here for original):



MFD and f2.8 - looking a bit dreamy (click here for original):



Again, MFD and f2.8 (click here for original):



One other thing - this lens back focuses on my K20D, like my FA*200 (however, my two DA lenses are spot-on). I've been fiddling with the AF adjust, as well as the adjustment in the debug menu (to go beyond +10), but I haven't found the optimum setting yet. It seems that the amount of adjustment needed varies with subject distance - if I optimize for portrait distances, infinity focus will be off. It's a bit frustrating - hopefully this issue will go away once I upgrade to the K-5 next year. (see update below)

I also have the Sigma 1.4x matched converter, but I'll need to resolve the focus issues first before I can properly evaluate this.

Anyways, I'm still getting to know this lens so I'll be adding to this thread as time goes on.

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* on Mike's advice, I took the filter off and the BF issue has almost entirely gone away! It might still be BF slightly, but I need to do some more testing in order to be certain.


Last edited by photogerald; 10-01-2010 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Updates and added more photos
09-27-2010, 04:56 AM   #2
Ash
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Thanks for sharing these Gerald.
The results here are as you'd expect - not all that sharp wide open, but good stopped down a couple of stops, although a flatter subject spread out throughout the entire field would give a better gauge of corner and edge sharpness.
The haloing does exist but as we'd expect much less so at MFD, though if we compared these with the newer 70-200 at the same focal distances, then we might get a similar result - similar lens formulation perhaps?
09-27-2010, 05:21 AM   #3
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i have used the "origonal" sigma APO 70-200F2.8 EX (non DG non macro) for almost 7 years now, first with my *istD, then K10D and now with the K7D.

I use it almost exclusively now with either the Sigma 1.4x or 2x TC for wildlife, although in the past I have also done a ton of shots at F2.8 and ISO 3200 for stage performance.

I cannot think of a better setup for wild life as exibited below.

The first is a full frame shot re-sized to post, the second is a 100% crop of about 10% of the area of the sensor, both shot on my K10D with the 2x TC attached
I never saw any reason to upgrade to any of the three later versions of this lens, and have no plans to in the future.



Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 09-27-2010 at 06:00 AM.
09-27-2010, 05:24 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Thanks for sharing these Gerald.
The results here are as you'd expect - not all that sharp wide open, but good stopped down a couple of stops, although a flatter subject spread out throughout the entire field would give a better gauge of corner and edge sharpness.
The haloing does exist but as we'd expect much less so at MFD, though if we compared these with the newer 70-200 at the same focal distances, then we might get a similar result - similar lens formulation perhaps?
I think you need to consider wide open at minimum focusing distance a bit of an exception. Working a little further away, this lens is very sharp at all apertures. You also need to consider that at 200mm F2.8 and minimum focus distance, depth of field wide open is a myth, there is none!


Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 09-27-2010 at 06:01 AM.
09-27-2010, 05:24 AM   #5
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Take the filter off.

I had all sorts of problems with my MKI 70-200mm when it first arrived from Ebay, it just wouldn't focus on the K10D. Took the filter off and it has been fine ever since. I had to use the debug hack to give it +20 on my K10D but it was spot on with the K-7 (which I have just sold) and it seems pretty good on another K10D I have just bought.

Mine is ok wide open and as you say gives the FA* 200mm a run for its money, so much so I sold my copy of the Pentax lens and the DA* 200mm will be following it very soon I reckon.

BTW .. the Sigma 100-300mm f4 is another cracking lens if you feel so inclined
09-27-2010, 05:55 AM   #6
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i've had my copy of this 1st gen lens for a few short months... my first real $$ telephoto lens... initial impressions, quick to focus, quiet, substantial feel, and when stopped down, the resulting shots have been satisfying.....

Camera Pentax K-x Exposure 0.001 sec (1/1600)
Aperture f/8.0 Focal Length 180 mm
ISO Speed 400
Exposure Bias 0 EV


200mm at f5, iso 800 )ev, 1/100


135mm f8 iso400 -0.3ev 1/1600
09-27-2010, 05:24 PM   #7
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I use this lens, generally in conjunction with the 1.4x. for my sports shots. I'd like to try the HSM version to check if focussing is any faster (as long as the Tamron or Kenko TC's work the HSM okay), but I've been too scared to buy one in case the IQ isn't up to the original!

I used my one without the TC for some tennis, I was staggered that a) I got so many in focus (I actually ditched perfectly good frames because I had so many), and b) the quality of the shots, it really drove home how good it is.

09-28-2010, 12:26 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Thanks for sharing these Gerald.
The results here are as you'd expect - not all that sharp wide open, but good stopped down a couple of stops, although a flatter subject spread out throughout the entire field would give a better gauge of corner and edge sharpness.
The haloing does exist but as we'd expect much less so at MFD, though if we compared these with the newer 70-200 at the same focal distances, then we might get a similar result - similar lens formulation perhaps?
Thanks Ash, I appreciate the comments.

I actually think that the wide open shot at portrait distance (the sunflower shot) looks pretty decent, though admittedly I need to shoot some subjects with more fine detail. And I'll try to take some shots to demonstrate the corner and edge sharpness.

The resizing applied by my hosting provider wasn't doing these images any favours, so I've resized them using Irfanview and updated my original post. I know these would look even better with more sharpening and maybe a contrast boost, but I wanted to give an accurate representation of the lens' performance.

I believe that the latest version of the Sigma 70-200 (the one with OS) uses a new optical formula - it incorporates "FLD" glass and interestingly, the MFD has gone up from the previous versions. Some reviews suggest that it's an excellent performer, said to equal or even surpass the gen-1 versions of the Canon and Nikon equivalents (with IS/VR). But of course this all comes at a much higher cost.
09-28-2010, 12:31 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
i have used the "origonal" sigma APO 70-200F2.8 EX (non DG non macro) for almost 7 years now, first with my *istD, then K10D and now with the K7D.

I use it almost exclusively now with either the Sigma 1.4x or 2x TC for wildlife, although in the past I have also done a ton of shots at F2.8 and ISO 3200 for stage performance.

I cannot think of a better setup for wild life as exibited below.

The first is a full frame shot re-sized to post, the second is a 100% crop of about 10% of the area of the sensor, both shot on my K10D with the 2x TC attached
I never saw any reason to upgrade to any of the three later versions of this lens, and have no plans to in the future.
Lowell - these are fantastic results with the 2x TC! I only have the 1.4x - perhaps I should also grab the 2x the next time I run across one. Thanks for sharing!
09-28-2010, 12:42 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
Take the filter off.

I had all sorts of problems with my MKI 70-200mm when it first arrived from Ebay, it just wouldn't focus on the K10D. Took the filter off and it has been fine ever since. I had to use the debug hack to give it +20 on my K10D but it was spot on with the K-7 (which I have just sold) and it seems pretty good on another K10D I have just bought.
Thanks for the suggestion - I will try some tests with the filter off. When I got this filter (it came with the lens) it had a bit of haze and you could see it in the resulting images. After cleaning it up I thought it would no longer be an issue, but maybe not.

I'm glad to hear that it focuses fine on your K10D. So that supports my hope that it's a body issue. When it's time to get a new body, I'll bring my lenses with me to the store and make sure that the focus is fine with the factory settings.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
Mine is ok wide open and as you say gives the FA* 200mm a run for its money, so much so I sold my copy of the Pentax lens and the DA* 200mm will be following it very soon I reckon.
Another point - the Sigma seems to focus faster than the FA*, and maybe even a bit quieter.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
BTW .. the Sigma 100-300mm f4 is another cracking lens if you feel so inclined
If I were more serious about (and had the oppurtunity to do) wildlife photography, I would get one. I've also heard that it performs very well with the Sigma matched TC's. I think of the 70-200 + 1.4x as the poor man's 100-300
09-28-2010, 12:44 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcmsox2004 Quote
i've had my copy of this 1st gen lens for a few short months... my first real $$ telephoto lens... initial impressions, quick to focus, quiet, substantial feel, and when stopped down, the resulting shots have been satisfying.....
Excellent shots - I can see why you're pleased!
09-28-2010, 12:59 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
I use this lens, generally in conjunction with the 1.4x. for my sports shots. I'd like to try the HSM version to check if focussing is any faster (as long as the Tamron or Kenko TC's work the HSM okay), but I've been too scared to buy one in case the IQ isn't up to the original!

I used my one without the TC for some tennis, I was staggered that a) I got so many in focus (I actually ditched perfectly good frames because I had so many), and b) the quality of the shots, it really drove home how good it is.
Arpe - I'm glad to hear you're getting good results shooting sports. The Sigma does seem to be a very versatile lens!

Just wondering, is your TC the "EX DG" or the EX, non-DG version? I have the non-DG version. Actually, I would also like to ask question to the other folks that use the Sigma TCs.
09-28-2010, 06:50 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogerald Quote
Arpe - I'm glad to hear you're getting good results shooting sports. The Sigma does seem to be a very versatile lens!

Just wondering, is your TC the "EX DG" or the EX, non-DG version? I have the non-DG version. Actually, I would also like to ask question to the other folks that use the Sigma TCs.

I am sure Arpe will answer what he uses, buit just to be clear on what I use, my 1.4x is the origonal sigma APO 1.4x EX (no DG) tele converter. I bought it at the same time as the lens in late 2003 when I got my *istD.

After wanting more reach, I bought the 2x TC in late 2007 or early 2008, it is the APO 2x EX DG which in sigma lingo is full frame coverage, and at the time the DG version was available.

Note that with sigma DG means optically coated for digital, specifically rear element coatings to stop potential reflections from the rear element and sensor, to improve contrast, and also the G in DG means full frame. If you see anything with a DC suffix from sigma it is for ASP-C sensors only
09-28-2010, 10:10 AM   #14
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It's been touched upon, but no posts from anyone who knows.

So has any reader of this thread who also owns the 2nd (or is it 3rd) gen of this Sigma lens, specifically with the HSM, used it with the Tamron Pz-AF 1.4x MC4 TC or any other TC with the Pz connection? I seem to remember reading posts that it acutally 'slows down' HSM focusing speed?

If there have been threads discussing it and you have some posts in that thread and can easily find it, or whatever, can you please provide a link? Primary reason being we can't search for "Pz" on a vBulletin search. (yes, I know about the Google search and will try it)

Inquiring minds want [need] to know. thanx much.

EDIT: Actually, this thread answers the question quite well.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/90489-any-1-4x...ive-motor.html
Looks like if I were to get the Sigma zoom, I already own the TC that will work with it (just got it in the mail today from hinman. ) Tho it also seems like it may hunt for focus on the long end, at least for some (but not all?) so compatability may not be 100%.

Last edited by m8o; 09-28-2010 at 11:42 AM.
09-29-2010, 05:24 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogerald Quote
Arpe - I'm glad to hear you're getting good results shooting sports. The Sigma does seem to be a very versatile lens!

Just wondering, is your TC the "EX DG" or the EX, non-DG version? I have the non-DG version. Actually, I would also like to ask question to the other folks that use the Sigma TCs.
Non-DG, just like the lens.

I also have that Tamron TC and would be very interested to hear about results specifically with the Sigma 70-200 HSM.
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