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10-02-2010, 08:18 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by YJD Quote
Thanks yusuf, I have looked around and it seems like the Jupiter's are more of a gamble than anything else. So I'm going to let that option go, I don't have the money to gamble and try buying different ones.

I guess I'm back between the Rokinon and the Pentax M 85.
This was an old thread started by me - some good points in favor of both the lenses:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/96947-85mm-tak...piter-9-a.html

Here is one more on M85/2 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/32843-my-favorite-lens.html

Again, what one likes is very subjectively, so you need to take your call.

Yusuf


Last edited by yusuf; 10-02-2010 at 08:23 AM.
10-02-2010, 08:34 AM   #17
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Thanks for the link. I looked on eBay for the Takumar, it's around $400 now. Way out of my budget.
I like the fact that the Pentax M 85 is small and light.

Hard decision, but I think I'm going to wait a bit in case some would be selling the M 85 or the Tak is the marketplace. But I'll be buying something this month.
10-02-2010, 08:57 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by YJD Quote
Thanks for the link. I looked on eBay for the Takumar, it's around $400 now. Way out of my budget.
I like the fact that the Pentax M 85 is small and light.

Hard decision, but I think I'm going to wait a bit in case some would be selling the M 85 or the Tak is the marketplace. But I'll be buying something this month.
Btw, there is one 85mm/1.9 in market for $290 - in case you are interested. Here is comparison of all Takumar The Great Pentax 85mm Lens Shoot-Out
10-02-2010, 09:31 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
I had the M85 for a while.
I found it not that good. It is a relatively simple 5-element construction and the color correction is not so good.
Its advantage is the very small size. It almost looks like a 50mm lens.

I am sure that the Samyang/Rokinon is better optically. I had is only for a very short time, but found it quite good.

So, in my opinion it's size vs. optics.
You'd be the first I've ever heard to say that

Sorry you had such a bad experience, but I'd say mine is superb optically.... and im not alone in that thinking. Jay continually called it the poor mans FA 77mm, coming from him that means something IMO.

I know I rant a lot about this lens and say the same things over and over, but im just going to reiterate that this lens is something special. Jay has noticed this as have I..... I will never sell my copy. I may get the sigma 85mm, but the M 85mm will never leave me. I love that lens more than any other including my absolutely fantastic F 135mm or K 50mm F/1.2

-----------------------------------------------------

as for cropping power, here is one I took a while ago with the K200d of a friends little brother:



and ~100% crop:



not bad at 1 click stopped down on the aperture ring ( F/2.8)


Last edited by yeatzee; 10-02-2010 at 09:38 AM.
10-02-2010, 09:53 AM   #20
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I don't want to say that it is bad. It is just not as good as others.
One will notice this probably only in direct comparison in a test set-up.

1. Corner sharpness:
extreme top left corner, 100% crop


2. Color correction:
Circle of confusion, fully open



Color fringing:
Normally this is pink. The M shows blue fringing.
Note also the colored borders as an indication of bad color correction.
10-02-2010, 10:06 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
1. Corner sharpness:
extreme top left corner, 100% crop
Is this on Full-frame or APC-C? I never used it on full frame but with APC-C, corners appeared just fine.
10-02-2010, 10:14 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
I don't want to say that it is bad. It is just not as good as others.
One will notice this probably only in direct comparison in a test set-up.

1. Corner sharpness:
extreme top left corner, 100% crop


2. Color correction:
Circle of confusion, fully open



Color fringing:
Normally this is pink. The M shows blue fringing.
Note also the colored borders as an indication of bad color correction.
#1: it looks more out of focus than anything. Are you sure it was perfectly parrallell to the cameras sensor? Focus was perfect? To many variables to bring anything conclusive IMO, and not to mention the fact that my M 85mm does not because hidiously un sharp in the corners wide open as yours, assuming your did everything PERFECTLY, shows.

#2: all three are "bad". Cyan in the first, red/yellow in the second, and green in the last.

#3: like just about all old lenses, you can coax out PF if you try :ugh:
10-02-2010, 10:50 AM   #23
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All of the above examples are with a K20D.

1. Of course I did a focus array, choosing the best of the bunch by visual inspection.
2. The slight green border is normal. This is typical for all lenses today due to over-correction of spherical aberration. The 85 in contrast shows an almost rainbow like border.
3. It's not about PF as such. It is a) about the color that points to imperfect correction (it should be pink) and b) note the "glowing" borders of the bar.

This was the result from only one copy. But I doubt that it was my copy only. I have heard about this color fringing from a friend, too.

Again, this does not mean that the lens is bad. You will probably not notice this in normal everyday shots.
But it could be better. It was optimized for size.

10-02-2010, 11:10 AM   #24
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Lots of good comments, thank you!
Everywhere I looked, I saw great images from the M85.

I only have $250 to spend, if it's a tak, I will need money for the M42 adapter as well. So this over won't work for me.
10-02-2010, 03:57 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
All of the above examples are with a K20D.

1. Of course I did a focus array, choosing the best of the bunch by visual inspection.
2. The slight green border is normal. This is typical for all lenses today due to over-correction of spherical aberration. The 85 in contrast shows an almost rainbow like border.
3. It's not about PF as such. It is a) about the color that points to imperfect correction (it should be pink) and b) note the "glowing" borders of the bar.

This was the result from only one copy. But I doubt that it was my copy only. I have heard about this color fringing from a friend, too.

Again, this does not mean that the lens is bad. You will probably not notice this in normal everyday shots.
But it could be better. It was optimized for size.
here are my findings about the M85/2. each number corresponds to your personal findings in sequence.

1.> my copy doesn't seem to display a weak corner sharpness. although if it is weaker than the others, I can live with it since I usually use it for center shot portraits, if not, cropped images. Yes, the M85 has an excellent center resolution. if stop down to f2.8 to f4, it is made sharp all over.

2.> I'm not sure if I had seen something like that with my copy's COC yet.

3.> this one I can verify that it does exist and a pretty nasty especially under harsh lighting conditions. I don't recommend shooting at f2 at such conditions as much as possible. f4, still shows a bit of the blue fringing. so if it were me, I would shoot at f5.6. on normal occasions, or controlled lighting, f2 is perfectly fine and of great use.

* the blue fringing, especially the glow is quite difficult to correct as oppose to pf or normal CA. I noticed that I will lose some color hue of the image once I tried to eliminate it completely (deep blue turns faded blue). it can be a lot of work and could require some cloning on some parts of the image which needs correction.

my thought is, it could had been better if it were corrected for such color fringing. although since this is an old FF lens, the intended purpose is probably for BW images and not really made for colored images, thus the CA and color glow.

this is possibly the reason why such lenses now at this focal lengths have ASPH, APO, LD/SLD correction glass.
10-02-2010, 07:15 PM   #26
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here is as far as comparison between the Rokinon 85/1.4 and M85/2 goes.

both lenses are priced the same.

1. the Rokinon has an "A" setting which is great while the M85, you need to stop down meter. this can crucial.

2. the Rokinon personally is difficult to nail focus especially wide open. I Dont have any problem nailing focus with the M85. can be crucial.

3. the Rokinon is really big and heavy (can be really difficult to carry). the M85 is small and light. (can be crucial)

4. the Rokinon's focus ring is not as smooth as the M85. (can be crucial)

5. the Rokinon's bokeh is great. M85 is very good.

6. the Rokinon is not as sharp as the M85. M85 gets increasingly sharp to a high note.

7. the Rokinon does not suffer as much/bad CA or blue fringing (glow) as the M85 (please refer to Blende8's post).

in the end, it comes down to what you are willing to compensate.
10-02-2010, 07:47 PM   #27
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Thank you Pentaxor for the great sum up.
I'm looking for a lens for portrait, so the bokeh is important.
If I could I would get the M85, but it's hard to find.
The one bad think about the Rokinon is its size and weight, but you seem to say that focus is hard. Is it because of the small DOF or is it because the lens isn't well made?
You have three 85, what is the one that you use the most and why?
10-02-2010, 08:57 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by YJD Quote
Thank you Pentaxor for the great sum up.
I'm looking for a lens for portrait, so the bokeh is important.
If I could I would get the M85, but it's hard to find.
The one bad think about the Rokinon is its size and weight, but you seem to say that focus is hard. Is it because of the small DOF or is it because the lens isn't well made?
You have three 85, what is the one that you use the most and why?
if you posted in the Wanted section, all you need is a bit of patience and luck. I had gotten my M85 copy because a fellow member told us there is one used copy up for sale at a local shop. I could had gotten a second copy a week or two later thru a local classified but hesitated because I already have one copy. eventually, that 2nd one got nabbed by somebody and eventually got sold again a few days later at a much higher price.

the small DOF of the Rok was quite difficult, especially without a specialized focusing screen and magnifying eyepiece.

between the 3, I use the M85 more because of it's sharpness, size, and MF feel.
with the exception of the 3, I would prefer the Vivitar S1 90/2.5, although a bit slower, it's IQ rendering (sharpness, bokeh, colors) is just simply outstanding. but this one is even more difficult to find. besides, if they could had made a 90mm/f2 (wishful thinking), that would had simply be my personal dream portaits lens.
10-03-2010, 01:19 AM   #29
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This is with the Rokinon 85mm. ISO200 at f1.4, -1EV, 1/40s hand held. i don't think i did much more than change the colour balance.

--Sorry for the large size.



Edit:

i find the Rokinon a great night time street lens. Even when i mount the camera on a tripod and shoot closed down long exposures, it presents the option of opening it back up to give me short enough shutter speeds to keep moving figures from blurring into smudges, without losing too much IQ.

Wide open to f2.8 or so it is optically very good when compared to other lenses using equivalent f-stops. No distortion to speak of, aberrations very well corrected, rez better than most at those wide lens openings.

Focusing is a chore in no-light situations. Couldn't focus it at all until i played with the diopter adjustment on the camera viewfinder and discovered that the setting that left my myopic, bespectacled eye most comfortable also prevented me from focusing the lens. So i adjusted and learned.

After that in bad light it became a matter of locating an area of high enough contrast to focus on. --i still misfocus a lot, but it's quite workable.

In my use of it the short tele focal length is a boon.

Last edited by conradj; 10-03-2010 at 04:22 AM.
10-03-2010, 06:49 AM   #30
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I have some time anyway, so I will wait to see if someone can find me a M 85. After some point, if no one can, I will go with the Rokinon. For the focusing part, I'll have to get use to it I guess.
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