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10-09-2010, 01:22 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshunter Quote
I hear ya Lowspark! I suppose this was a bit of a cry of help I'm looking for a reason not to buy, nay 'pre-order', the x100. The sensor size is the same, if not very very close to APS-C....and as far as the micro-lens technology....well I thought this Pentax could do even better than Fujifilm - hence the DA Ltd line Again, I know I am being naive, but I agree the parallel development makes it 'easier' for Fuji to pull it off, but don't Pentax have the same, if not better, ingredients (sensor, processor, etc.) and chefs to make this happen?
It could be a little smaller. Maybe Leica X1 size. Perhaps you don't need it then!

To further address the "lens question" I think SLR lens design is quite different than mirrorless or rangefinder due to registration difference and how that changes the angle of the light when it reaches the sensor plane.

(Waiting for someone with real knowledge to step in)

10-09-2010, 01:39 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by bilybianca Quote
I've got the DA14, FA20, FA35, FA50 mm lenses. My bag is pretty large and heavy already, and there's no big hole screaming "fill me with something at the short end!" I just sold my FA28mm because it was redundant. If I really need something between 20 and 35 mm I actually have the 16-45 too, but I seldom reach for it being the prime lens snob I am.
What Pentax should do is keep producing some of their finest FA lenses, or maybe update them a bit (weatherseal) and relabel them DA or DA*. The FA20mm is an amazing little gem.

Kjell
I'm happy for you not needing the 20-35 lens. But then again, you have fast 14 & 20. Some people don't. As example I have 10-20 which is f5.6 at 20mm and as such painfully slow. But I wan't to keep it because of 10mm. I don't want to double focal lengths so 24 is perfect compromise.
As for FA20, it's what DA21 should have been!
Calls for DA24/2.8? I'd be happy with it. I had Sigma 24/2.8 AF and K24/2.8. If the former would have the rendering of the K or the K would have AF of the Sigma I'd very happy camper indeed.
The problem is, there is NO new 24mm (or 23 or 25 for that matter) from Pentax and from 3rd parties there is only MF Zeiss and large Sigma 24/1.8...
10-09-2010, 01:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshunter Quote
I hear ya Lowspark! I suppose this was a bit of a cry of help I'm looking for a reason not to buy, nay 'pre-order', the x100. The sensor size is the same, if not very very close to APS-C....and as far as the micro-lens technology....well I thought this Pentax could do even better than Fujifilm - hence the DA Ltd line Again, I know I am being naive, but I agree the parallel development makes it 'easier' for Fuji to pull it off, but don't Pentax have the same, if not better, ingredients (sensor, processor, etc.) and chefs to make this happen?
like lowspark said, it is more of the integration of the lens to the sensor of the body which would solve any shortcomings of the lens. the x100 seems like a beast, and I can't think of a person ever refuted that it won't be or isn't a great prospect. I don't think that buyers would only buy it for it's fast focal length equivalence, but rather would buy the camera as a whole. being an alternative 24mm is just another part of your option. although by saying that, I would scrap the idea of buying a Pentax 24mm lens for the x100. for $1,000, you got yourself an extra body which is portable/handy and a fast lens which specializes for general use and optimized by an extent over a lens only option.

as far as Pentax duplicating what Fuji has done, it is up to them on how or where will they invest their money in research at. I'm sure that the others are now starting to play catch up to the x100, even the almighty Leica. and no, Pentax doesn't have the same ingredients that powered the x100. it was Fuji that was able to take full advantage of tweaking the CCD sensor and utilized and incorporate it's unique EXR technology into it. this time, they tried it for the CMOS utilization.

so this would be another challenge for Pentax to develop a faster yet affordable 24mm. cost and pricing would be the key here.
10-09-2010, 02:26 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by lowspark86 Quote
I'm no master of optics but I'll offer some information I read (maybe even here on PF, so consider the source).

Since the X100 will have only one fixed lens the sensor and micro lens technology can help compensate for any shortcomings of the lens itself. The camera, sensor and lens were developed in parallel to make this possible.

I'm sure someone else here has a better idea of how they accomplished this.

That camera is amazing though. 10cm close focus with that lens too.....I can't really come up with a reason not to buy it.
I think the biggest difference is made by the distance between lens and sensor. The much longer distance because of the mirror in a DSLR camera makes the design of wide angle lenses much more complex (retro focus). This makes them grow in size much more if made fast.
A DSLR use a distance of 40-50mm between sensor and lens mount so any lens with shorter focal length than that is more difficult to design.

IMO the shorter register distance of mirrorless cameras is the most interesting feature of them, as it makes design of wide angle lenses easier and they can be better optimized. So these types of lenses do not have to sacrifice speed as much if to be made small. It can also make lenses cheaper as the design can be made less complex.

10-09-2010, 04:01 AM   #20
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I'm in!!!! I don't care if it says DA, FA, something*.... I just want a high quality fast 24mm lens. Does it have to be pancake small, not at all. I want a modern design which hopefully will not make it huge, but I don't care if it isn't tiny. High quality fixed focal length lens, bring back Tak pride with this one Pentax. Enough with the zooms, give those of us who shot primes a fast ball right over the heart of the plate.
10-09-2010, 04:20 AM   #21
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Sigma 24mm F1.8

In this whole thread I saw only one mention of this lens. It's a very nice lens, with only one big flaw, it's big. It's also a bit flare prone but if you equip it with a good "normal" hood that problem is pretty much eliminated. The IQ is excellent, my onliest complaint in that dept is the quality of the bokeh, but that is a subjective judgement in any event. If you are pining for a fast 24mm here is one that is in production, good to excellent IQ, and can be had for about 500USD.

NaCl(but it ain't small)H2O
10-09-2010, 04:22 AM   #22
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So I'm guessing people here would be happy seeing these bad boys get back into production either as they are or as DA versions (after all the optical formula is already worked out and is Pentax's own)...

SMC Pentax-FA* 24mm F2 AL [IF] Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database


SMC Pentax-A 28mm F2 Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database
10-09-2010, 04:29 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
In this whole thread I saw only one mention of this lens. It's a very nice lens, with only one big flaw, it's big. It's also a bit flare prone but if you equip it with a good "normal" hood that problem is pretty much eliminated. The IQ is excellent, my onliest complaint in that dept is the quality of the bokeh, but that is a subjective judgement in any event. If you are pining for a fast 24mm here is one that is in production, good to excellent IQ, and can be had for about 500USD.

NaCl(but it ain't small)H2O
Regarding the Sigma lens, it isn't the desire or job of Pentax to sell another company's lenses. No knock against Sigma, but I want Pentax to produce a great 24mm lens. Actually, kudos to Sigma for "getting it".

10-09-2010, 04:57 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
So I'm guessing people here would be happy seeing these bad boys get back into production either as they are or as DA versions (after all the optical formula is already worked out and is Pentax's own)...

SMC Pentax-FA* 24mm F2 AL [IF] Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database


SMC Pentax-A 28mm F2 Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Review Database
the 28/2 would be a definite Yes, the 24/2, I'd say they should make a new one better. not necessarily f2,but something very nice and affordable.
10-09-2010, 05:05 AM - 1 Like   #25
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rover, I think the the main problem is that Pentax prolly doesn't think that a fast 24 will sell well enough to justify the R&D expense. First of all you have to distinguish the Pentax fast 24 from the Sigma. That means making it smaller. Smaller = more expensive. So how many Pentax shooters will go for a DA 24mm f2.0 @ 750USD or more? I'm betting not many. I'm sure Pentax thinks so too. Sigma can get away with it because they can make the lens in all the different mounts, not just Pentax. So the R&D costs can get spread around more.
Actually I think Pentax would be better served with a new DA* 135 or 150 with an aperture of F2.8 or below. I think more would be willing to put their had earned cash towards that focal lenght range.

NaCl(just my 2 cents)H2O
10-09-2010, 05:10 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
the 28/2 would be a definite Yes, the 24/2, I'd say they should make a new one better. not necessarily f2,but something very nice and affordable.
How much would be a reasonable price for such a lens as the 'DA 28/2'? * or no *?
I could see Pentax listening to a large group of Pentaxians who really wanted a lens like this for a price they could comfortably make a profit from...
10-09-2010, 05:13 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
In this whole thread I saw only one mention of this lens. It's a very nice lens, with only one big flaw, it's big. It's also a bit flare prone but if you equip it with a good "normal" hood that problem is pretty much eliminated. The IQ is excellent, my onliest complaint in that dept is the quality of the bokeh, but that is a subjective judgement in any event. If you are pining for a fast 24mm here is one that is in production, good to excellent IQ, and can be had for about 500USD.

NaCl(but it ain't small)H2O
it's a very good lens, but not excellent. surely it is an alternative for the missing 24mm Pentax prime. the reasons for not cutting it for me is it's pointless wide open performance and color. and the IQ rendering all over the image. I prefer some solid rendering at the corners at this focal length as well. complaint I have with the Pentax 24/2 is it's weak performance at wide open. this is why I think that a 24/2.8 would be most likely more logical, because producing the same lens with a blah wide open performance wouldn't make any sense.
10-09-2010, 05:19 AM   #28
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I agree that a 135mm lens is also very desirable. I will say it again though regarding a 24mm lens, why make it small. The FA LTD 31 isn't small and we aren't complaining. Image quality makes the difference. That is what will set a Pentax lens apart from the Sigma lens. Modern design, coatings and glass to make the lens a true Takumar and not a 3rd party substitute.

As far as sales and return on R&D $, you are 100% correct. Canon and Nikon have their FF lines for professionals and wanna be others which builds the image of their brands, but they both make their DSLR $ selling Rebels and D3000s. Pentax has targeted the most profitable class of DSLRs and related system. That is the biggest hurdle to a premo 24mm prime which makes the new DA 35/2.4 a more sensible development than what makes sense for those of us here who we have to admit is the minority of the market.
10-09-2010, 06:35 AM   #29
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The reality is most people nowadays opt for the convenience of zooms over primes. If Pentax were to ever produce a superlative wide angle zoom like the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8G ED, most of us wouldn't even be discussing about a 24mm prime of f/2.8. There is the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 SDM that covers the focal range but given that many are spooked by the SDM gremlins (whether real or not) means limited options.

If affordability was not the issue, most of those who would opt for a 24mm prime lens wouldn't really be interested in anything at f/2.8 but would steer towards a fast lens of stellar optical performance best exemplified by the Nikon 24mm f/1.4G ED. I dare say this lens easily trumps the discontinued FA* 24mm f/2. Unfortunately even if one were to be a rich Pentaxian (a misnomer if ever I saw one ), you can't buy such a lens because Pentax doesn't make one. Simply put, Pentax has not rolled out any professional grade fast maximum aperture lenses for the longest time. Even with the increase in the user base, I have my doubts that Pentax will ever do a 24mm f/2 or faster lens. But I would be happy to be proved wrong.

With the improved AF offered by the K-5 and K-r, now would the best time for Pentax to seriously consider producing large maximum aperture lenses in the near future as the long suffering issue of FF/BF that is more noticeable with fast max aperture lenses would hopefully and likely to be addressed.

Last edited by creampuff; 10-09-2010 at 06:45 AM.
10-09-2010, 07:19 AM   #30
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Well the 28/2 is for me better. It's the APS-C equivalent of the legendairy FA 43mm/f1.9 Ltd lens since it is the diagonal of our sensor. Would be nice to have it.
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