Should I stay with Pentax or not?

RUSBoris · 10-17-2010, 07:34 PM

Actually I only shoot in good lightning conditions. Outdoors wildlife, so there's
always good lightning and contrast, especially now that it's fall. I have to say,
looking back at the pics I took these last few weeks... The quality is astounding.
Colors are VERY accurate, and bokeh is wonderful. And no doubt the K x is the best
bargain around right now. But AF is important to me, birds and chipmunks don't
wait. I've been reluctant to take many shots because I knew I couldn't get the shot
by the time it would focus.

So basically at this time and price point it's either good IQ at a good price with
great build quality (Pentax) or fast AF and pretty bad and cheap quality (Canon).
Doing wildlife I really need both and guess I had my hopes up for getting both at
this price point.

Here is my favorite photo I took with the K x:
Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

As for the AF trouble. Here is one example where it simply refused to auto focus:
Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
(terrible IQ on that photo, not sure why. Then again it took me 2 minutes of trying to AF before going MF, so I didn't care at that point haha). As you can see there's the sun rising in the background and the leaf very much stands out. But this was a glitch. %90 of the time AF works, eventually. It's just slow. And noisy.

Thanks very much for your help! I suppose the best course of action is to return the K-x and just wait for a good balance of AF and IQ in the future. Winter's coming soon anyway, not many animals will be around

**wizofoz** · 10-17-2010, 07:39 PM

If you can return the K-x and wait, save a few shekels and buy the K-r. It seems like it has equal or better IQ WRT the K-x and better AF than even the K-7 (yet to be proved), so it seems to be your ideal body.

**r0ckstarr** · 10-17-2010, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by RUSBoris

As for the AF trouble. Here is one example where it simply refused to auto focus:
Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
As you can see there's the sun rising in the background and the leaf very much stands out. But this was a glitch. %90 of the time AF works, eventually. It's just slow. And noisy.

The leaf is backlit. The bright sun made it hard for the camera to find something to focus on. You were pretty much trying to lock focus while looking into the sun. That's why you had trouble with that one. At least, that's my guess.

As for birds and squirrels, Manual Focus is the way to go IMO. Not because of the camera, but because of technique.

My opinion is to stick with the Kx and practice more with the camera itself. Just get used to it. I checked out your photostream. You've got some great stuff.

RUSBoris · 10-17-2010, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by wizofoz

If you can return the K-x and wait, save a few shekels and buy the K-r. It seems like it has equal or better IQ WRT the K-x and better AF than even the K-7 (yet to be proved), so it seems to be your ideal body.

Wow yeah I think I'll do just that! Get tye Kr, with the m50 lens that can be had relatively cheap and stick with current 55-300mm..

Especially after reading this http://www.radiantlite.com/2010/10/pentax-kr-vs-canon-t2i-550d.html

Thanks everyone! Pentax it is

**wizofoz** · 10-17-2010, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by RUSBoris

Wow yeah I think I'll do just that! Get tye Kr, with the m50 lens that can be had relatively cheap and stick with current 55-300mm..

Especially after reading this Pentax Kr vs Canon T2i / 550D

Thanks everyone! Pentax it is

Another one saved from the dark side.....our work here is done!

JoepLX3 · 10-17-2010, 10:29 PM

With the same beginner user, I strongly doubt the K-r is that much better than K-x.
- Oh, I am also discovering the K-x with several AF as well as MF lenses

Blurry pictures of my A 50 mm F1.4 with full open aperture are not all due to wrong focus, just to narrow focus (wrong aperture).
- IMHO AF is also something you need to learn, some applications require center spot only others Auot 5 or 11...

Most of the fun is in learing how to play with the toy!!!

**interested_observer** · 10-18-2010, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by JoepLX3

With the same beginner user, I strongly doubt the K-r is that much better than K-x.
- Oh, I am also discovering the K-x with several AF as well as MF lenses

Blurry pictures of my A 50 mm F1.4 with full open aperture are not all due to wrong focus, just to narrow focus (wrong aperture).
- IMHO AF is also something you need to learn, some applications require center spot only others Auot 5 or 11...

Most of the fun is in learing how to play with the toy!!!

Hi Joep - with the 50/1.4 wide open, you have a VERY narrow depth of field. At a distance of 20 feet the DoF is 2.75 feet. At 10 feet the DoF is 7.8 inches. At 1 foot the DoF is 0.12 inches. So focusing on exactly what you intend, especially close in (under 10 feet) can be very difficult with a paper thin DoF.

Opening up the aperture to f4 increases the DoF tremendously - at 10 feet the DoF becomes 2 feet - that is an increase of over 300%. Your image's sharpness also increases. So, the moral of the story is that not all the lens' great qualities are localized at the wide open end.

One of the advantages of a fast lens like the 50/1.4 is that it becomes an even better lens stopped down. Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much.

Online Depth of Field Calculator

JoepLX3 · 10-18-2010, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

One of the advantages of a fast lens like the 50/1.4 is that it becomes an even better lens stopped down. Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much.

But F1.4 sound more cool, doesn't it?

- I was aware of situation, but had to be reminded in real life...

**Rondec** · 10-19-2010, 05:08 AM

One thing to investigate would be either the Pentax DA 17-70 f4 or Sigma 17-70 (with HSM). It seems like noisy autofocus bothers you, so getting one of these lenses would effectively take care of that problem. They have near silent in lens motors that are pretty fast.

Auto focus is something that takes lots and lots of practice. Learning to understand how the auto focus works -- looking for high contrast areas that the camera can lock on to and seeing back lighting that will make it hard is something that is learned. No other entry level camera is going to lock on much better than the kx (at least not on center point focus). Keep working and you will be surprised at how your results improve over the coming weeks!

GaryH · 10-19-2010, 06:05 AM

You might also want to make sure you are not inside of the minimum focus distance of the lens you are using. I take a lot of backyard bird photo's with my Bigma and I like to be just beyond the 9 ft minimum
distance to make sure there are no problems with focus.

Raylon · 10-19-2010, 08:12 AM

You say the Kx has better build quality than the T1i, but i strongly disagree. I've played with both quite a bit and the canon is much better feeling to me to. Also think about where you want to go as a photographer. If you want compactness and goood old and new primes, stick with pentax. If you want to eventually get into big telephotos or more action oriented things, you would be better off sticking with the fast AF of canon.

Pablom · 10-19-2010, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much.

unfortunately, it does not cost half as much

DJEZRAJ · 10-20-2010, 11:34 AM

Hi Boris. Everyone here have some valid advice. However I personally have use'd several cameras including canon and Nikon slrs and while each have their strengths none of them took the picture for me perfectly.
When I started out using SLR's i was using my EOS400D at work as well as I borrowed my friends Pentax K100D. Coming from a point & shoot camera I expected the shots to be more instantly in focus and punchy. I did not yet fully understand focus technique or dept of field let alone what shutter speed to use for a given subject.
Needless to say I had problems similar to yours and neither Canon or Pentax made a difference.
I did find however when I got my K10D that the in body stabilization helped me with my fast 50 where the canon could not as their bodies are not stabilized. Of course this only helped certain situations.

My point is take your time to dissect your process and learn from the images of what went wrong. SLR's of all types are simply a different world and there is so much to know.
I also feel one you learn from your experience and understand what decision the camera is making and why you will know what and when to override the parameters.
A simple change such as metering mode and ISO settings can make a world of difference.
Give it time and you will do great

..ps on final thought. Even if it turns out something is wrong with the camera learning will give you the ability to tell the difference between user error and Camera malfunction. It is frustrating when you are not able to tell. Try some of the suggestions in this thread and see for yourself!

Good Luck
Roger

Saito Hideo · 10-26-2010, 01:58 PM

I understund your question.

Some months ago, while working with my K20D, I can test a Canon T2i from a friend. My first impression was the T2i AF appears to be more quick and create better imagens (on lcd).

Other things are:
1) the price of the T2i kit (18 mpx) was more atracttive than the K-5 body (16 mpx).
2) pentax flash units was too much slow (can anyone tell me if metz is better to marriage photo works?)

zelovoc · 10-26-2010, 02:55 PM

if you want to go with zoom lenses, than pentax is probably not the best choice, if you want to try primes, than you can`t find something better. i have in my bag 35/50/77 and i don`t need anything else (maybe da 15 but ..

today i spent my day on a nikon promotion action and i get to some beer drinking with those guys and guess what they found the most interesting? my fa 77 ltd! ltd lenses are something what you can`t find anywhere else. it`s only pentax. pentax system is minimalistic. give it a chance.

10-18-2010, 07:17 PM	#22
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,652	Originally posted by JoepLX3 With the same beginner user, I strongly doubt the K-r is that much better than K-x. - Oh, I am also discovering the K-x with several AF as well as MF lenses Blurry pictures of my A 50 mm F1.4 with full open aperture are not all due to wrong focus, just to narrow focus (wrong aperture). - IMHO AF is also something you need to learn, some applications require center spot only others Auot 5 or 11... Most of the fun is in learing how to play with the toy!!! Hi Joep - with the 50/1.4 wide open, you have a VERY narrow depth of field. At a distance of 20 feet the DoF is 2.75 feet. At 10 feet the DoF is 7.8 inches. At 1 foot the DoF is 0.12 inches. So focusing on exactly what you intend, especially close in (under 10 feet) can be very difficult with a paper thin DoF. Opening up the aperture to f4 increases the DoF tremendously - at 10 feet the DoF becomes 2 feet - that is an increase of over 300%. Your image's sharpness also increases. So, the moral of the story is that not all the lens' great qualities are localized at the wide open end. One of the advantages of a fast lens like the 50/1.4 is that it becomes an even better lens stopped down. Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much. Online Depth of Field Calculator

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10-17-2010, 07:34 PM	#16
RUSBoris New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 19 Original Poster	Actually I only shoot in good lightning conditions. Outdoors wildlife, so there's always good lightning and contrast, especially now that it's fall. I have to say, looking back at the pics I took these last few weeks... The quality is astounding. Colors are VERY accurate, and bokeh is wonderful. And no doubt the K x is the best bargain around right now. But AF is important to me, birds and chipmunks don't wait. I've been reluctant to take many shots because I knew I couldn't get the shot by the time it would focus. So basically at this time and price point it's either good IQ at a good price with great build quality (Pentax) or fast AF and pretty bad and cheap quality (Canon). Doing wildlife I really need both and guess I had my hopes up for getting both at this price point. Here is my favorite photo I took with the K x: Untitled \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! As for the AF trouble. Here is one example where it simply refused to auto focus: Untitled \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! (terrible IQ on that photo, not sure why. Then again it took me 2 minutes of trying to AF before going MF, so I didn't care at that point haha). As you can see there's the sun rising in the background and the leaf very much stands out. But this was a glitch. %90 of the time AF works, eventually. It's just slow. And noisy. Thanks very much for your help! I suppose the best course of action is to return the K-x and just wait for a good balance of AF and IQ in the future. Winter's coming soon anyway, not many animals will be around

10-17-2010, 07:39 PM	#17
wizofoz Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne, Outer east. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,680	If you can return the K-x and wait, save a few shekels and buy the K-r. It seems like it has equal or better IQ WRT the K-x and better AF than even the K-7 (yet to be proved), so it seems to be your ideal body.

10-17-2010, 07:46 PM	#18
r0ckstarr Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,506	Originally posted by RUSBoris As for the AF trouble. Here is one example where it simply refused to auto focus: Untitled \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! As you can see there's the sun rising in the background and the leaf very much stands out. But this was a glitch. %90 of the time AF works, eventually. It's just slow. And noisy. The leaf is backlit. The bright sun made it hard for the camera to find something to focus on. You were pretty much trying to lock focus while looking into the sun. That's why you had trouble with that one. At least, that's my guess. As for birds and squirrels, Manual Focus is the way to go IMO. Not because of the camera, but because of technique. My opinion is to stick with the Kx and practice more with the camera itself. Just get used to it. I checked out your photostream. You've got some great stuff.

10-17-2010, 08:12 PM	#19
RUSBoris New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 19 Original Poster	Originally posted by wizofoz If you can return the K-x and wait, save a few shekels and buy the K-r. It seems like it has equal or better IQ WRT the K-x and better AF than even the K-7 (yet to be proved), so it seems to be your ideal body. Wow yeah I think I'll do just that! Get tye Kr, with the m50 lens that can be had relatively cheap and stick with current 55-300mm.. Especially after reading this http://www.radiantlite.com/2010/10/pentax-kr-vs-canon-t2i-550d.html Thanks everyone! Pentax it is

10-17-2010, 08:22 PM	#20
wizofoz Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne, Outer east. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,680	Originally posted by RUSBoris Wow yeah I think I'll do just that! Get tye Kr, with the m50 lens that can be had relatively cheap and stick with current 55-300mm.. Especially after reading this Pentax Kr vs Canon T2i / 550D Thanks everyone! Pentax it is Another one saved from the dark side.....our work here is done!

10-17-2010, 10:29 PM	#21
JoepLX3 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 518	With the same beginner user, I strongly doubt the K-r is that much better than K-x. - Oh, I am also discovering the K-x with several AF as well as MF lenses Blurry pictures of my A 50 mm F1.4 with full open aperture are not all due to wrong focus, just to narrow focus (wrong aperture). - IMHO AF is also something you need to learn, some applications require center spot only others Auot 5 or 11... Most of the fun is in learing how to play with the toy!!!

10-18-2010, 09:05 PM	#23
JoepLX3 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 518	Originally posted by interested_observer One of the advantages of a fast lens like the 50/1.4 is that it becomes an even better lens stopped down. Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much. But F1.4 sound more cool, doesn't it? - I was aware of situation, but had to be reminded in real life...

10-19-2010, 05:08 AM	#24
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,099	One thing to investigate would be either the Pentax DA 17-70 f4 or Sigma 17-70 (with HSM). It seems like noisy autofocus bothers you, so getting one of these lenses would effectively take care of that problem. They have near silent in lens motors that are pretty fast. Auto focus is something that takes lots and lots of practice. Learning to understand how the auto focus works -- looking for high contrast areas that the camera can lock on to and seeing back lighting that will make it hard is something that is learned. No other entry level camera is going to lock on much better than the kx (at least not on center point focus). Keep working and you will be surprised at how your results improve over the coming weeks!

10-19-2010, 06:05 AM	#25
GaryH Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Philadelphia, Pa Photos: Gallery Posts: 764	You might also want to make sure you are not inside of the minimum focus distance of the lens you are using. I take a lot of backyard bird photo's with my Bigma and I like to be just beyond the 9 ft minimum distance to make sure there are no problems with focus.

10-19-2010, 08:12 AM	#26
Raylon Guest	You say the Kx has better build quality than the T1i, but i strongly disagree. I've played with both quite a bit and the canon is much better feeling to me to. Also think about where you want to go as a photographer. If you want compactness and goood old and new primes, stick with pentax. If you want to eventually get into big telephotos or more action oriented things, you would be better off sticking with the fast AF of canon.

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10-19-2010, 02:46 PM	#27
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 1,940	Originally posted by interested_observer Actually, I have read that the 50/1.7 is a almost as good and costs half as much. unfortunately, it does not cost half as much

10-20-2010, 11:34 AM	#28
DJEZRAJ Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 33	Hi Boris. Everyone here have some valid advice. However I personally have use'd several cameras including canon and Nikon slrs and while each have their strengths none of them took the picture for me perfectly. When I started out using SLR's i was using my EOS400D at work as well as I borrowed my friends Pentax K100D. Coming from a point & shoot camera I expected the shots to be more instantly in focus and punchy. I did not yet fully understand focus technique or dept of field let alone what shutter speed to use for a given subject. Needless to say I had problems similar to yours and neither Canon or Pentax made a difference. I did find however when I got my K10D that the in body stabilization helped me with my fast 50 where the canon could not as their bodies are not stabilized. Of course this only helped certain situations. My point is take your time to dissect your process and learn from the images of what went wrong. SLR's of all types are simply a different world and there is so much to know. I also feel one you learn from your experience and understand what decision the camera is making and why you will know what and when to override the parameters. A simple change such as metering mode and ISO settings can make a world of difference. Give it time and you will do great ..ps on final thought. Even if it turns out something is wrong with the camera learning will give you the ability to tell the difference between user error and Camera malfunction. It is frustrating when you are not able to tell. Try some of the suggestions in this thread and see for yourself! Good Luck Roger

10-26-2010, 01:58 PM	#29
Saito Hideo Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sao Paulo, SP Posts: 3	I understund your question. Some months ago, while working with my K20D, I can test a Canon T2i from a friend. My first impression was the T2i AF appears to be more quick and create better imagens (on lcd). Other things are: 1) the price of the T2i kit (18 mpx) was more atracttive than the K-5 body (16 mpx). 2) pentax flash units was too much slow (can anyone tell me if metz is better to marriage photo works?)

10-26-2010, 02:55 PM	#30
zelovoc Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kosice Posts: 80	if you want to go with zoom lenses, than pentax is probably not the best choice, if you want to try primes, than you can`t find something better. i have in my bag 35/50/77 and i don`t need anything else (maybe da 15 but .. today i spent my day on a nikon promotion action and i get to some beer drinking with those guys and guess what they found the most interesting? my fa 77 ltd! ltd lenses are something what you can`t find anywhere else. it`s only pentax. pentax system is minimalistic. give it a chance.