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10-21-2010, 11:30 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damian Quote
I never said I liked the 28-80, just that he had the longer end already covered. Earlier in the post I did specify type, go back and read my recommendations on the second page and the top of this page of this post. DA AL II or the DA L as the optical formula of both are identical. I have the DA L and am mostly happy with the results I get. Again, 28mm is not wide enough when crop factor is taken into consideration. The field of view is more like you would see with a 42mm lens. Definitely not wide enough for a lot of applications. If IQ is the chief concern then I still recommend either a 50mm 1.7 or a Miranda 24mm 2.8 macro. With the Miranda as my number 1 choice because of the useful close focus abilities. Both CAN be found for under $100. I'm not knocking your recommendations, they are both good solid zooms, I just don't think they are wide enough for all purpose use.
I wasn't responding to your earlier post. The 18-55 AL and AL II have completely different optics. The DA L and WR are based on the AL II. How often do you see a Mirand 24mm/2.8 for sell and who actually made it? Allied Impex was out of the Miranda picture by then (~ 1955-78) and even they hired it done. The reason I mention it is that there is probably the same lens out there under a more common name(s). However, that is the realm of mf.

Edit: Given that his current lens is a paperweight, I would say that is one reason he is looking to upgrade.

10-21-2010, 12:52 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Would you like to clarify your slow comment? the DA 18-55 is damn slow at 55mm/5.6 compared to f4.5 at 70. Plus you didn't state if you were talking about the II or original 18-55.
1. I hope you will agree that f/4.5 and f/5.6 are both slow compared to a 50/1.4. If you think that 2/3 stop difference makes something "damn slow" then what expression would you use for a sixteen-fold increase in light gathering?

2. It doesn't matter if I was talking about the original or improved kit lens since both have the same focal length range, which was all I was referencing.

The photographic possibilities inherent in adding a fast 50 to a kit are many times more interesting than simply replacing one slow zoom with another.
10-21-2010, 01:55 PM   #48
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If possible (which it should be), not one lens, but two. Vivitar 28mm close focus and (M42) Helios 44-2 58mm f2 or if really lucky a Helios 44K-4 58mm f2 (K-mount).

Vivitar as a Normal equivalent on APS-C, and Helios as a portrait lens.
10-21-2010, 01:59 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
1. I hope you will agree that f/4.5 and f/5.6 are both slow compared to a 50/1.4. If you think that 2/3 stop difference makes something "damn slow" then what expression would you use for a sixteen-fold increase in light gathering?

2. It doesn't matter if I was talking about the original or improved kit lens since both have the same focal length range, which was all I was referencing.

The photographic possibilities inherent in adding a fast 50 to a kit are many times more interesting than simply replacing one slow zoom with another.
You weren't comparing anything to a 50/1.4. Furthermore, the amount of light increase from one stop to the next isn't linear so its till a 67% increase in the amount of light from f5.6 to f4.5. Plus, that's f5.6 at 55mm! Regardless, he isn't going to get an AF 50mm f1.4 lens for < $100. Its too bad the FA 50/1.4 is not longer available at $199 shipped.

Edit: All zooms are slow then. DA 17-70/4, DA* 16-50/2.8. That's why I suggested a lens with good IQ and decent speed and put the remainder towards a fast 50 or 55mm manual focus lens.

10-21-2010, 11:24 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damian Quote
Heres a DAL 18-55mm on ebay. I don't know if they ship to Japan, so you will need to ask questions. They come up all the time, so keep looking. Try to stay away from the DA AL (without the II). It had lower resolution and was a little worse with distortion on the wide end.
Pentax smc DAL 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL Lens White - eBay (item 150507382428 end time Oct-22-10 18:42:26 PDT)

You are right, there are no Miranda's up for sale right now. Keep looking, and get one if you see one.
Wow, thanks for the link

QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
Another 18-55 DAL from Germany with worldwide shipping for 44 EUR (+ worldwide shipping 15-25 EUR):

SMC Pentax 18-55mm 1:3,5-5,6 AL DAL Macro * TOP bei eBay.de: (endet 24.10.10 20:16:26 MESZ)

The point is that these can be had with shipping to Japan <100 US$ and so can other quality glass. The (inflated) shipping charges unfortunately complicate things, or in effect, make ideal matches on any item much rarer. This means more work (checking for interesting ones periodically, setting up saved searches, contacting sellers, etc.). As said, here earlier, the DAL 18-55 is probably the only more modern thing in the price range certainly worth getting, the other gems would be MF and even more manual (in which lies the potential to deeper knowledge and sharper instinct ;-)
Thank you also!!

QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
Take a look in here:

?????? < ?????????????????? < ... < ???AV???? - Yahoo!??????

With luck you might find some good glass for cheap. Just don't jump at the first one you see. If you have any doubts, you can PM me.


Edit: Found a DA-L kit lens for $50
PENTAX smc PENTAX-DA L 1:3.5-5.6 18-55mm AL ?? - Yahoo!??????
Nice to see another person from Japan. Nihonjin des ka? I'm lucky to have you responding to my posts! Thanks for the PM invite!

QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
I'd buy nothing if I were you, Ehlacore. You've a very good camera and a good lens. So go out and take pictures. When you know what do you want - wide, tele, normal, macro, fast, slow, big, small, zoom, prime, etc - then you can reevaluate your budget and the market. It will may happen that you will take wonderful pictures with the gear that you currently have and it will simply have saved you some money.
Well I know I want a lens to cover everything. Right now I go somewhere and I see something at a distance I cant get to and I am forced to take the picture and crop it or something that makes it look terrible.

I also cant shoot macro, I dont know why but this 28-80MM is just TERRIBLE at macro.

Lastly I:m not impressed with the IQ at all... not that I have alot to compare to but when I go from a $200 point and click to a DSLR I expected to at least see a step up in image quality. (which dont get me wrong, sometimes I do, its just that the most frustrating thing is to get a good shot with nice composition but the IQ sucks. I realize I:m still in the learning faze. Right now I:m practicing Manual Focus so maybe I can pick up a good cheap Prime lens that will help my improve my portraits and such.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Edit: Given that his current lens is a paperweight, I would say that is one reason he is looking to upgrade.
word
10-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #51
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damn... i cant contact sellers who dont ship internationally :-(

darn US ebay sellers...
10-22-2010, 08:16 AM   #52
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Looking to cover everything..... hmmmm..... definitely won't be able to get an auto-focus lens in that budget that will do what you want. Just a few more suggestions then. There are some things that might be usefull to you that can be found cheap to very cheap.
Look for a Kiron 28-210mm f3.8-5.6. It will give you the equivalent field of view of 42-300mm. That's not very wide, but it may be wide enough for what you describe. It is long though. It's manual focus, It's big, it's heavy, it's intimidating, and it has decent image quality. Does macro (1:4) reasonable well. The macro focus is available from 28-210mm. It's sharp, not the sharpest, but still sharp. Contrast is good but color is somewhat cooler then pentax. You can correct that on your camera or in post processing though. On the long end, expect some puple fringing on hig contrast areas, but it's minor compared to other super zooms of that era. I picked one up for $35 just to mess with and I actually kinda like it. There are other equivalents to this lens out there that you might be able to find that are pretty good.
Also, you might want to look for a Quantaray 70-300mm F4-5.6 LD Macro 1:2,
It's not going to give you the wide end at all. You will have to find a wide prime or zoom lens for that later. What it does have is autofocus, it's image quality is considered decent. Not the best but decent. It is very long, and will get you those far away shots you were saying you wanted. Probably better then the lens you have, but not as good as some of the others suggested. I've seen these sell for as low as $50. The one great thing about this lense is 1:2 macro. I've seen shots taken with this lens and they were very good to excellent. I don't personally have one, so all my info on it is second hand.
10-22-2010, 10:30 AM   #53
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I think the Tamron 70 (75?)-300 is supposed to be better than Qunataray, but not sure. It has macro also, and might be a nice choice. Also the Pentax FA-J 75-300, mine was right about $100 and works well for what it does.

10-22-2010, 10:35 AM   #54
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FYI: there's a Kiron 28-210 F4-5.6 (which isn't quite as good as the 3.8-5.6, but very close) on the marketplace for $60. He says he's shipping only to North America, but I bet if you beg, he may help you out.

Here's the link to the marketplace.
Marketplace

Here is a good review of the Kiron from a Canon user.
Kiron 28-210mm f4-5.6
10-22-2010, 10:38 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nick Siebers Quote
I think the Tamron 70 (75?)-300 is supposed to be better than Qunataray, but not sure. It has macro also, and might be a nice choice. Also the Pentax FA-J 75-300, mine was right about $100 and works well for what it does.
The quantaray is actualy a re-branded tamron and is usually more affordable. The newer Tamron versions of this lens are better, but more expensive. The quantaray is an older version. I have no experience with the FA-J 75-300.
10-22-2010, 10:47 AM   #56
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[langtitle=es]Some doubts[/langtitle]

Hello ,

Some doubts . Perhaps IŽd select K 28 f/3,5 . But also A 50 f/1,7 should be a candidate , since the "A" setting and the fast aperture are of advantage using K10D .

Regards
10-22-2010, 10:47 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You weren't comparing anything to a 50/1.4.
When I say "slow" and fast" I am of course comparing to the available lenses in that focal length. Otherwise such relative terms are meaningless. And in fact I did reference the 50/1.7 earlier in the thread -- this is my recommendation and one can in fact be obtained for $100.

As for arguing whether it's 2/3 a stop or closer to 70% or more like 60%... that is surely the type of nitpicking that helps no-one looking for beginning advice. Especially when compared to the (close to) four stop difference I am suggesting.
10-22-2010, 11:04 AM   #58
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You don't have any lens at all yet? DA 18-55 then. Get the mk II or WR version...
10-22-2010, 12:48 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
When I say "slow" and fast" I am of course comparing to the available lenses in that focal length. Otherwise such relative terms are meaningless. And in fact I did reference the 50/1.7 earlier in the thread -- this is my recommendation and one can in fact be obtained for $100.

As for arguing whether it's 2/3 a stop or closer to 70% or more like 60%... that is surely the type of nitpicking that helps no-one looking for beginning advice. Especially when compared to the (close to) four stop difference I am suggesting.
I wasn't the one to bring "stops" into the discussion. However, to refer to my post at post #7 of this thread you will see that I had it covered:

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I would get the F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5 or the FA 28-70mm f4 and put the rest towards a fast 50 or 55mm mf lens. Both these zooms will smoke any of the 18-55 lenses in IQ and are far more compact and overall faster.

Furthermore, I don't pick nits, I leave that to the social workers at the Health Department. :bigthumbsup:
10-22-2010, 10:50 PM   #60
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2 tips:

1. Look around at local camera dealers if you want to save shipping costs.
2. Buy a film body with lens (maybe also at a local dealer).

In the towns where I live and work, there are in total about 4 shops that sell second hand lenses (lucky me!). Got a lovely M 50 f/1.7 for about 60 euro, and was too indecisive to get an A 50 f/1.4 for 100 euro, it was gone three days after I spotted it.

The split focus screen would probably be nice, I have it in my film KX, but good alternatives for digital cost about 100 euro easily. And I read the installation pdf, no way I want to do that by myself So I would probably pay a local dealer to install it. But you can do without with a bit of practice. Doesn't matter too much, it's digital, use the milions of free shots you have to get a feeling.

I do it like that, experiment with digital, use what I learned with film. It's super! 35mm is still a lot bigger than aps-c, and the standard fuji superia you get in every shop gives lovely colors imho. Film Pentaxes are available abundantly from the good old times where Pentax was camera brand #1 Preferably get one with exposure metering and PK mount, often they come with a 50mm f/2.0 or better, for the same price as just the lens..
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