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09-18-2007, 08:09 AM   #1
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Worries on investment...

Sometimes I meet people who are verrry proud of their credit card sized many-MP digital cameras.

When I show them my K10D with batterygrip, 300mm takumar f/4 and tripod, they are ** NOT ** impressed.

They look at me as if I am carrying a 1960 Mamiya RB67 with a 270mm lens on it, to the top of a mountain. "Poor You, taking an entire backpack for transporting a technique that fits in my jeans' pocket!"

This is annoying, I think. Even though I know that my gear will produce images THEY will be jalous of, somehow, I wonder how long it will be before the DSLR funcionality will all be put together in a credit card sized supercamera.

That's because I know I am continuously upgrading to better (=bigger, and heavier lenses, tripods and bodies) under the assumption that spent money will not be gone entirely because there will still be a market, even when I will want to sell in some years from now...

09-18-2007, 08:22 AM   #2
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You're annoyed that people fail to be in awe of you for your equipment? That's your goal in photography? Or even a concern?

How very sad.
09-18-2007, 08:32 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Syb Quote
Even though I know that my gear will produce images THEY will be jalous of, somehow, I wonder how long it will be before the DSLR funcionality will all be put together in a credit card sized supercamera.
my best guess would be never, and even if they do, I don't think it'll happen in your, or my lifetime.

Just go out and shoot, and enjoy your larger sensor, better optics and superior control
09-18-2007, 09:09 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Syb Quote
Sometimes I meet people who are verrry proud of their credit card sized many-MP digital cameras.

When I show them my K10D with batterygrip, 300mm takumar f/4 and tripod, they are ** NOT ** impressed.

They look at me as if I am carrying a 1960 Mamiya RB67 with a 270mm lens on it, to the top of a mountain. "Poor You, taking an entire backpack for transporting a technique that fits in my jeans' pocket!"

This is annoying, I think. Even though I know that my gear will produce images THEY will be jalous of, somehow, I wonder how long it will be before the DSLR funcionality will all be put together in a credit card sized supercamera.

That's because I know I am continuously upgrading to better (=bigger, and heavier lenses, tripods and bodies) under the assumption that spent money will not be gone entirely because there will still be a market, even when I will want to sell in some years from now...
Hardly anthing to be annoyed at.

I've seen some amazing images shot on a credit-card sized camera, but by the same token they're much more limited in what they can accomplish. If that suits the person using it, that's great. Doesn't suit me though and whether someone is or isn't impressed with my gear or my images matters not to whether I'm enjoying using my gear and making the images I do.

And when it comes right down to it, when the final image is being looked at, it will be judged on it's own merits, not with the gear being used or the difficulty in lugging it around

Cheers!

09-18-2007, 09:36 AM   #5
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Hi Syb

When you said:

QuoteQuote:
When I show them my K10D with batterygrip, 300mm takumar f/4 and tripod, they are ** NOT ** impressed.
......I also have a K10D & D BG-2 grip, but I can assure you that in all honesty, NEVER ONCE during the thought process which resulted in my eventual purchase did the consideration of "impressing" anyone with it EVER occur to me !
What you have in your possession is a wonderful piece of modern photographic technology with which (potentially) to take fantastic quality images. What other people think of it is neither here or there. Don't concern yourself with how those around you do or don't perceive you when using your camera, simply hone your skills and become a better photographer. I'm prepared to bet that when Ansel Adams carted all that heavy photographic equipment up a mountainside in order to capture an 'unrepeatable' image, the last thing on his mind was what people might have thought about the plate camera he was using, or for that matter the lens that was attached to it !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 09-19-2007 at 06:15 AM.
09-18-2007, 10:23 AM   #6
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I hope other people's impressions of your gear aren't worrying you that much. The same reason you want people to care about your SLR is the same reason you should respect their "simple" equipment.

I have a thin Nikon P&S that I use a lot. For simple snapshots, carrying around on vacation, etc., it's just sometimes more practical than lugging the K100D around. I have an old Fuji 2 MP clunker that I don't mind treating rough, or taking somewhere it might get lost or damaged. I love to use them all, because I love photography. And loving cameras and picture-taking is what allows me to appreciate my cheaper, older gear. The insturment is merely that: an instrument. Whatever gets you the shot you're looking for is the greatest camera you could have at that moment. And sometimes (often) it's not your most impressive piece of equipment.

Face it, a lot of people don't know or care what your SLR is or why it's good. But they're probably just as happy with their cameras as you are with yours. Probably more so...SLR owners are typically the type to never be satisfied. Ignorance is bliss.
09-18-2007, 10:48 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by aerodave Quote
...Face it, a lot of people don't know or care what your SLR is or why it's good. But they're probably just as happy with their cameras as you are with yours. Probably more so...SLR owners are typically the type to never be satisfied. Ignorance is bliss.
So true, lol.
09-18-2007, 11:07 AM   #8
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Syb,

My experience is exactly the opposite. When I'm at events or the local children's arcade with my family, I'm frequently asked by other parents -- almost all of them armed with P&S or cell phone cameras -- how much I charge for pictures. They see the K10D/BG2/AF-540 around my neck and assume I'm the in-house photographer! I'll offer to take some shots and either email the files or mail a few prints, free of charge. I do this because it's a cheap and easy way to make people happy; I'm not a fan of welfare and other forms of coerced "compassion." I make some new friends and get to practice my photography along the way.

As long as you're worried about what other people think, you'll never be happy. Even if the P&S crowd infallibly swooned over your equipment, you would eventually run across some pixel-peeping dolt who spends all of his time on the computer and couldn't take a photograph to save his life, who wil proclaim this, that or the other piece of equipment wholly inadequate to the task. "Deer don't read gun magazines," is my standard response when someone tells me he read what an inadequate cartridge the 100+ year old .30-30 is. Similarly, the moonrise over Hernandez, New Mexico, didn't know what an inferior lens (according to the pixel peepers) Ansel Adams was using to capture its image. It just stood there and let Mr. Adams make one of the world's greatest photographs.

Bottom line: your hobby is for YOU and you alone. Go out, take pictures, hone your eye and your skills. Spend your time looking at great photgraphs instead of pictures of cameras. Get your bragging rights from the work you produce, not from equipment anyone with a credit card can buy.

09-18-2007, 11:11 AM   #9
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I am happy in both worlds of dslr and p&s

And I welcome the advances in p&s to catch up with dSLR. By the time that p&s can do similar things in my k100D, I think the latest in dslr will do things we can't imagine today. In a way, I find great compliments between p&s and dSLR and they serve similar and yet can be very different purposes into my hobby. I get asked a lot of times about how bad it is to carry all heavy gears. I am not there to convince them to move over nor I want to justify the heavy equipment that I have to carry.

I just know what I am here to enjoy -- taking photographs. Whether it is a dslr or a p&s, it does not matter -- the picture that comes out and the experience to go with the picture taking matters most to me.

Then:
I use this camera bag for my Fuji F30 and Casio ex-z750
#1


Now:
#2
lunch box for hosting camera body + main lens


And ever since upgrading to dSLR with a bigger camera, I have a difficult time finding a camera bag that I like. And I turn my normal backpack into a camera bag with some weird padding with diapers to get the jobs done

#3
with diapers


#4
How it looks with body + 2 lens


#5
How it looks if I have to carry all equipment (I am not proud of
this, I much rather the F30 picture with one small pocketable bag)


More description and pictures in my blog post with user comments
Hin's Camera Bags - Hin's Tech Corner

Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 09-18-2007 at 01:05 PM.
09-18-2007, 11:42 AM   #10
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Original Poster
Maybe I should try to explain my concern another way.

And: of course this does not at all interfere with my joy of having this greatly performing photo gear. It has improved by large my experience, and fun, in photography.

But...

In everydaylife I see technology moving towards "the same thing or better in smaller dimensions" I really wonder whether the new generations will be interested in shooting with the lenses we use today. Won't they think they are too big, too heavy?

The number of people using 6x7 nowadays are very few. This leads to falling prices for second hand 6x7 gear. It happens within a few years.

Now, one of my reasons to buy new used equipment pretty easily, is that i'm confident that - when i want something new - there will be plenty of other people interested in buying that equipment from me.

And there is my concern. Would this 35mm DSLR really have the future? Or will the future be in the cams in mobile phones and other mini-equipment?

Of course, no answer can be given for sure. And of course, I enjoy the gear I've got. But that doesn't stop me thinking about it...

... and sometimes it's good to have a different point of view. So let's hear yours!
09-18-2007, 12:10 PM   #11
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your concern may be valid for consumer level equipment - it won't be worth a penny in 10 years.

But if you're buying advanced equipment, you can be sure it will retain (some) value. Of course, digital technology advances much faster than any other before, but I bet dSLR still have a few decades of life. You can see the best equipment is the heaviest/largest, a C* MKIII is miles away from becoming a credit card.
09-18-2007, 12:48 PM   #12
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Just from what I've observed, there's a movement in two different directions. Firstly there's the point'n'shoot developments which make better product in smaller bodies that are becoming more and more capable.

The flip-side is that the SLR end is moving towards even more capable cameras with a 1.6x, 1.5x, 1.3x & 1.0x sensors. They're becoming faster, more reliable and even more capable than the high-end film bodies. They're also offering a quality and creative control that most of us never even fathomed in the days when 35mm ruled the roost. Because bigger size means better image quality (in the hands of those who know how to use their cameras), I don't foresee the SLR market suddenly going smaller and more compact unless the sensor size remains the same as it is now.

I've also noticed that a lot of people who would have used point'n'shoots in the film world suddenly stepping up to an entry level SLR after owning a digital compact because of the advantages it offers over the compacts. Digital itself has probably increased the number of SLR shooters overall - and I'd wager that most make the jump because they can play with the camera without wasting film and money.

I'd personally love to get a small point'n'shoot (I was going to abbrieviate that to "p'n's", but it looked wrong ) for just wandering around at lunch because of the size advantage. However, I'm hard-pressed to find anything to complain about when I bring my SLR in and use it.
09-18-2007, 01:02 PM   #13
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I highly recommend Fuji F30 for p&s consideration

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrew Faires Quote
Just from what I've observed, there's a movement in two different directions. Firstly there's the point'n'shoot developments which make better product in smaller bodies that are becoming more and more capable.

The flip-side is that the SLR end is moving towards even more capable cameras with a 1.6x, 1.5x, 1.3x & 1.0x sensors. They're becoming faster, more reliable and even more capable than the high-end film bodies. They're also offering a quality and creative control that most of us never even fathomed in the days when 35mm ruled the roost. Because bigger size means better image quality (in the hands of those who know how to use their cameras), I don't foresee the SLR market suddenly going smaller and more compact unless the sensor size remains the same as it is now.

I've also noticed that a lot of people who would have used point'n'shoots in the film world suddenly stepping up to an entry level SLR after owning a digital compact because of the advantages it offers over the compacts. Digital itself has probably increased the number of SLR shooters overall - and I'd wager that most make the jump because they can play with the camera without wasting film and money.

I'd personally love to get a small point'n'shoot (I was going to abbrieviate that to "p'n's", but it looked wrong ) for just wandering around at lunch because of the size advantage. However, I'm hard-pressed to find anything to complain about when I bring my SLR in and use it.
If you ever consider a p&s to compliment your dSLR, I highly recommend Fuji F30/F31 as I do come from the p&s world with Fuji F30 and Casio ex-z750.

With Joby Gorillapod (both help make the banner picture below)


Some samples from Fuji f30


That camera can take very fine pictures especially in high iso and low light photography settings. It does reasonably well but not the best in daylight settings IMO

I am yet to finish my positive thoughts on Fuji F30 in this article (incomplete with links to many photos)

Thoughts on Fuji F30 - Hin's Tech Corner

One of my best photos from Fuji F30



has been used in my photo blog banner

Hin's Photo Blog

and I can't reproduce that picture with my K100D gear and the amateur skills that I have with my dslr.

Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 09-18-2007 at 02:57 PM.
09-18-2007, 01:58 PM   #14
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I don't think there's any worries about DSLR's disappearing in the near future (10-20 years). There was a recent survey released in the spring, that showed the most common photographic tool used by the public was a Cell phone. Yes that's most likely the 12-20 year old group and most shots are probably taken for My Space and at parties. But those types of 'shooters' will always use cell phones and P&S cameras. But these new tools are introducing many to the joy of photography and will result in more people wanting a 'real' camera, not less. A percentage will advance to a better format. My son's are perfect examples. They loved taking shots with their phones and when they compared the pictures they took t the ones I did with the K10D, well they were hooked. Both now have their own DSLR's and I know they have converted a few of their friends.

At the same time as all these cell phones being used, the DSLR market has exploded with more models, features and quality. Sales are growing in numbers most other retail categories would be envious of.

There will alway be a demand for the top level formats. Look at how many members there are on just this one site and how rarely we get P&S shooters asking questions. And that's for a brand that has 6-8% market share.

Someday there will be another way to take shots, some new type of format and equipment but I think that day is a long way from today. The one limiting factor is the lens. The sensor systems can get better and smaller but the lens is what will determine the final picture quality. So until someone figures out how to produce a better shot on a device that doesn't need a lens in today's style, then you will still be able to find the gear you want.
09-18-2007, 02:23 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Someday there will be another way to take shots, some new type of format and equipment but I think that day is a long way from today. The one limiting factor is the lens. The sensor systems can get better and smaller but the lens is what will determine the final picture quality. So until someone figures out how to produce a better shot on a device that doesn't need a lens in today's style, then you will still be able to find the gear you want.
I will hold out for mindread.exe so that the computer can download what my eyes see, in 1 gigapixle format.

Seriously, this thread got started wondering about investment, and whether there will be a resale value.

I think the answer is yes on lenses (just look at how hot K mount lenses made in 1980 are selling) but no on bodies. Film cameras have 0 trade in value, and My *istD is worth about 15% of its value when new. The K10 has dropped 30%, and will drop again (used value) when a newer modle comes out.
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