Good lens for large groups

Todd Adamson · 11-11-2010, 02:58 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions for a Pentax mount lens that's ideal for large groups? Something that's pretty flat-field, or close, and has good corner to corner sharpness at f/4 to f/5.6....

I don't shoot big groups that often, but when I do, I am often disappointed about sharpness of faces near the edges. Recently I acquired the Voigtlander 58 in F-mount and have used it for a couple of larger groups. It's almost exactly what I want, but the focal length feels a bit short to me on my D3. Probably about perfect on APS.

If I had to pick a lens for large groups today, I'd probably just go buy the 58 again in K-mount; but I'm wondering what the other possibilities are. I don't care about autofocus. I don't shoot large groups in small spaces, so I could probably go out to 80mm or so...and maybe down to 40. What about the FA 43? Did I just answer my own question?

Capslock118 · 11-11-2010, 03:20 PM

Wouldn't a small MM be better? Since you don't care about AF I was going to suggestion the pentax-k 24mm f2.8 - or the 50mm 1.4...

but now I'm second guessing myself....i would just think an 80mm would make you have to stand really far away to get everyone...

also - a fun way to do it is to just shoot a couple photos from left to right and then stich them together...

Todd Adamson · 11-11-2010, 03:29 PM

40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already.

mtroute · 11-11-2010, 03:49 PM

well with post processing there is no need to worry about distortion. I have a sigma 10-20 and have had really good luck fixing distortion in Lightroom or Photoshop. Just a thought ( I am assuming you're shooting digital of course)

Last edited by mtroute; 11-11-2010 at 04:00 PM.

jolepp · 11-11-2010, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Todd Adamson

40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already.

I was going to suggest a macro for corner to corner sharpness, but you beat to me it :-)

GeneV · 11-11-2010, 05:21 PM

I recently took the group photo (150 people) for a dance camp, which I do every year. It is taken in a gym from the balcony and still needs a 21mm to get everyone in. I'd love to be able to take that shot with a "normal" lens and the heads all the same width, but I haven't figured out how, so far.

JeffJS · 11-11-2010, 05:38 PM

Any reason you cannot stand (or sit) your group so that you can take 2 photos and stitch them together?

**Ex Finn.** · 11-11-2010, 05:57 PM

I was going to say DA 12-24.

Wheatfield · 11-11-2010, 05:59 PM

Any 50mm K mount should work.
I believe (but could be wrong) that the slower 50mm lenses (f/1.8 and f/2) are flat field lenses, the f/1.4 and f/1.2 are curved field.
Of course I might have it backwards or just completely wrong....

However, a good way to shoot largish groups, if you can do it, is to have them posed in an arc so that the entire front row is about the same distance from the camera. This is the workaround for a curved field optic.

Ron Kruger · 11-11-2010, 06:01 PM

The most amazing lens I've used in almost 40 years is the DA 15mm Limited. I've used it for a couple of large groups and wouldn't want to use anything else. Even though it is wide, there is very little bending on the outside, and the detail beats anything I've ever used, including some Zeiss glass. It preforms best at f-11, so the DOF is very wide and every part of everyone is in focus with a detail that will go the size of the wall.
I don't post pics here, but if you will send me a PM, I'll email you a shot to show what this lens can do.

alohadave · 11-11-2010, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Todd Adamson

40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already.

That's a question of camera-subject distance, not focal length. The farther you get from your group, the more the sizes of the heads are going to equalize. The closer you get, the larger the apparent size difference.

**Ash** · 11-11-2010, 06:18 PM

So large working distance (and sufficient lighting), you could get away with 20-30mm capturing groups of 100 or more people. The DA 21 and FA 31 come to mind. If you're able to fit everyone in the frame using a DA 35 macro or DA 40 or FA 43, even better - stopped down to f/5.6-8 all these lenses are stellar edge to edge.

Limited working distance, you may need 15-20mm, which for Pentax limits you to DA 15 ltd, DA* 16-50/DA 16-45 (cf. barrel distortion at 16-18mm), DA 12-24 (cf. wide angle distortion for portraits) or DA 14.

I have also done a large group photo for >150 young adults (rowdy bunch) with a DA 16-45 that needed a good 50m working distance at 16mm... but stopped down to f/5.6 the results were reasonably acceptable (each face was discernible in the image but not the sharpest though).

Todd Adamson · 11-19-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by alohadave

That's a question of camera-subject distance, not focal length. The farther you get from your group, the more the sizes of the heads are going to equalize. The closer you get, the larger the apparent size difference.

Right, but those two things are not entirely separable when I'm trying to fill my frame.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I may be able to use my 35...but I am thinking I might "need" that 40 or 43, though.

paperbag846 · 11-19-2010, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Any 50mm K mount should work.

I think this is a very solid suggestion. If this lens is strictly for large-group shots, I would go longer than 40 or 43 mm (esp. since you have a killer 35). The old 50 1.7's & 55 1.8's are pretty much steals.

Todd Adamson · 11-22-2010, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by paperbag846

I think this is a very solid suggestion. If this lens is strictly for large-group shots, I would go longer than 40 or 43 mm (esp. since you have a killer 35). The old 50 1.7's & 55 1.8's are pretty much steals.

I've got an A series 50/1.7, so maybe I won't worry about the 40 or 43 for a bit. I also just ordered a ZK 35/2.

11-11-2010, 02:58 PM	#1
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722	Good lens for large groups Does anyone have any suggestions for a Pentax mount lens that's ideal for large groups? Something that's pretty flat-field, or close, and has good corner to corner sharpness at f/4 to f/5.6.... I don't shoot big groups that often, but when I do, I am often disappointed about sharpness of faces near the edges. Recently I acquired the Voigtlander 58 in F-mount and have used it for a couple of larger groups. It's almost exactly what I want, but the focal length feels a bit short to me on my D3. Probably about perfect on APS. If I had to pick a lens for large groups today, I'd probably just go buy the 58 again in K-mount; but I'm wondering what the other possibilities are. I don't care about autofocus. I don't shoot large groups in small spaces, so I could probably go out to 80mm or so...and maybe down to 40. What about the FA 43? Did I just answer my own question?

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11-11-2010, 03:20 PM	#2
Capslock118 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Haven, CT Photos: Gallery Posts: 173	Wouldn't a small MM be better? Since you don't care about AF I was going to suggestion the pentax-k 24mm f2.8 - or the 50mm 1.4... but now I'm second guessing myself....i would just think an 80mm would make you have to stand really far away to get everyone... also - a fun way to do it is to just shoot a couple photos from left to right and then stich them together...

11-11-2010, 03:29 PM	#3
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722 Original Poster	40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already.

11-11-2010, 03:49 PM	#4
mtroute Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portland OR Posts: 533	well with post processing there is no need to worry about distortion. I have a sigma 10-20 and have had really good luck fixing distortion in Lightroom or Photoshop. Just a thought ( I am assuming you're shooting digital of course) Last edited by mtroute; 11-11-2010 at 04:00 PM.

11-11-2010, 03:53 PM	#5
jolepp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 3,196	Originally posted by Todd Adamson 40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already. I was going to suggest a macro for corner to corner sharpness, but you beat to me it :-)

11-11-2010, 05:21 PM	#6
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	I recently took the group photo (150 people) for a dance camp, which I do every year. It is taken in a gym from the balcony and still needs a 21mm to get everyone in. I'd love to be able to take that shot with a "normal" lens and the heads all the same width, but I haven't figured out how, so far.

11-11-2010, 05:38 PM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Any reason you cannot stand (or sit) your group so that you can take 2 photos and stitch them together?

11-11-2010, 05:57 PM	#8
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	I was going to say DA 12-24.

11-11-2010, 05:59 PM	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Any 50mm K mount should work. I believe (but could be wrong) that the slower 50mm lenses (f/1.8 and f/2) are flat field lenses, the f/1.4 and f/1.2 are curved field. Of course I might have it backwards or just completely wrong.... However, a good way to shoot largish groups, if you can do it, is to have them posed in an arc so that the entire front row is about the same distance from the camera. This is the workaround for a curved field optic.

11-11-2010, 06:01 PM	#10
Ron Kruger Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 534	The most amazing lens I've used in almost 40 years is the DA 15mm Limited. I've used it for a couple of large groups and wouldn't want to use anything else. Even though it is wide, there is very little bending on the outside, and the detail beats anything I've ever used, including some Zeiss glass. It preforms best at f-11, so the DOF is very wide and every part of everyone is in focus with a detail that will go the size of the wall. I don't post pics here, but if you will send me a PM, I'll email you a shot to show what this lens can do.

11-11-2010, 06:05 PM	#11
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by Todd Adamson 40 is about as wide as I would ever want to go. I prefer to have the heads in the front and back rows be the same sizes, LOL. Maybe I could go to 35, I dunno....I have the DA 35 Macro already. That's a question of camera-subject distance, not focal length. The farther you get from your group, the more the sizes of the heads are going to equalize. The closer you get, the larger the apparent size difference.

11-11-2010, 06:18 PM	#12
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	So large working distance (and sufficient lighting), you could get away with 20-30mm capturing groups of 100 or more people. The DA 21 and FA 31 come to mind. If you're able to fit everyone in the frame using a DA 35 macro or DA 40 or FA 43, even better - stopped down to f/5.6-8 all these lenses are stellar edge to edge. Limited working distance, you may need 15-20mm, which for Pentax limits you to DA 15 ltd, DA* 16-50/DA 16-45 (cf. barrel distortion at 16-18mm), DA 12-24 (cf. wide angle distortion for portraits) or DA 14. I have also done a large group photo for >150 young adults (rowdy bunch) with a DA 16-45 that needed a good 50m working distance at 16mm... but stopped down to f/5.6 the results were reasonably acceptable (each face was discernible in the image but not the sharpest though).

11-19-2010, 06:55 PM	#13
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722 Original Poster	Originally posted by alohadave That's a question of camera-subject distance, not focal length. The farther you get from your group, the more the sizes of the heads are going to equalize. The closer you get, the larger the apparent size difference. Right, but those two things are not entirely separable when I'm trying to fill my frame. Thanks for the responses, guys. I may be able to use my 35...but I am thinking I might "need" that 40 or 43, though.

11-19-2010, 07:02 PM	#14
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395	Originally posted by Wheatfield Any 50mm K mount should work. I think this is a very solid suggestion. If this lens is strictly for large-group shots, I would go longer than 40 or 43 mm (esp. since you have a killer 35). The old 50 1.7's & 55 1.8's are pretty much steals.

11-22-2010, 03:57 PM	#15
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722 Original Poster	Originally posted by paperbag846 I think this is a very solid suggestion. If this lens is strictly for large-group shots, I would go longer than 40 or 43 mm (esp. since you have a killer 35). The old 50 1.7's & 55 1.8's are pretty much steals. I've got an A series 50/1.7, so maybe I won't worry about the 40 or 43 for a bit. I also just ordered a ZK 35/2.