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11-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hannican Quote
I don't care if a lens costs $10,000 or $100 though, I want to know which one performs the best!
What you say makes a lot of sense... a 100 dollar lens that does not let you do what you want to do is far more expensive than a 1000 dollar lens you get use out of every day!

I find the only real solution is to painstakingly read all the reviews... and look at sample photos taken by each lens. It's much more helpful than a numerical value. Besides... a lens might be a 10 for portraits, but only a 6 for landscapes. Or something.\

I think thats why we see so many "this lens vs. that lens" posts - it generates a far more helpful response (often) then the reviews do.

11-18-2010, 01:31 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
Don't think of the rating system as a lens quality rating. There is no standard for rating the quality against. Therefore, you need to consider it as a value rating (IQ for the price/weight/focal range).

Tim
This is my perception as well. And many reviews state that explicitly - "In it's class, it's fantastic. So what if it's not a Limited Prime, I didn't want to spend $500." It hardly seems fair to rate the FA100-300 against the DAF100WR - but for their respective prices, that FA100-300 is a great little lens. Apples and oranges can't be judged on the same rating scale - IQ related to value makes sense.

When it comes to any review system, I give only a passing glance to the ratings (throwing out the highest and lowest ratings automatically) and read each review and scare up as many photos from that lens as possible (pixel-peeper=lots of samples). Even if someone rates a lens a "9," there's no counting on whether they value what I value. There are many reviews out there proclaiming a lens sharp! contrasty! purple fringe, but software cures that! I HATE PF, I won't use a lens with it, no matter how gorgeous it is otherwise. So that '9' isn't very meaningful to me.

Descriptions & photos with the lens. That's what I want - and our review section tends to have nice, long, specific descriptions. Makes me happy
11-18-2010, 01:48 PM   #18
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As has been pointed out, what I might think of as a good lens may not be the same for you. For the reviews I have done, I have always tried to include pics. I think pics say more than numbers....
11-18-2010, 02:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
The ratings themselves basicially tell you if the owner is happy, not whether lens A is better than lens B for your needs. That would be gathered from the comments.

For example, the K55 1.8 has pretty much the same rating as the FA 43 LTD. That is preposterous. However if you were to read the comments, it would not take you long to figure out in which areas the FA 43 pulls far ahead of the K55.

User satisfaction also has a lot to do with price... I doubt the K55 would have a similar rating as the FA 43 if they cost the same amount.
Very, very well said.

11-18-2010, 02:40 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
The ratings themselves basicially tell you if the owner is happy, not whether lens A is better than lens B for your needs. That would be gathered from the comments.

For example, the K55 1.8 has pretty much the same rating as the FA 43 LTD. That is preposterous. However if you were to read the comments, it would not take you long to figure out in which areas the FA 43 pulls far ahead of the K55.

User satisfaction also has a lot to do with price... I doubt the K55 would have a similar rating as the FA 43 if they cost the same amount.
The K55 punches way above its weight price wise IMO and it actually has nicer bokeh than the 43 I have both the FA43 and K55 and both have their uses and about equal time on the camera. I gave the 55 a 9 and the 43 a 10, conversely I gave the FA50 f/1.4 a 7 because it really needs a good hood and the build and tactile feel is horrible. The thread made me rethink some of my reviews and I dropped the Super Takumar 85 to a 7 because its getting too expensive compared to an FA77 at an easy 10 which is only a couple of hundred dollars more 2nd hand, harsh? perhaps but that is reality.

Last edited by robbiec; 11-18-2010 at 02:50 PM.
11-18-2010, 02:51 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
The thread made me rethink some of my reviews and I dropped the Super Takumar 85 to a 7 ...
Oh man...you might be burned in effigy for even suggesting such a thing!
11-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
The K55 punches way above its weight price wise IMO and it actually has nicer bokeh than the 43
Wow! I feel lucky . I knew the K55 outperformed it's price class, but I am surprised to hear you say the bokeh of the K55 is nicer than the 43! I REALLY like the bokeh of the K55 up till around f4, but the highlights turn into strong hexagons at that point, which is why I prefer more aperture blades.
11-18-2010, 03:00 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Super Takumar 85 to a 7 because its getting too expensive compared to an FA77
Now I have an idea... why don't we all go in and rate the really good lenses 2's. This forum's review section is the first thing that pops up when you type in "pentax lens review", so maybe that will drive the prices of these really good lenses down .

11-18-2010, 03:17 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Quote Originally posted by robbiec Quote
Super Takumar 85 to a 7 because its getting too expensive compared to an FA77
Now I have an idea... why don't we all go in and rate the really good lenses 2's. This forum's review section is the first thing that pops up when you type in "pentax lens review", so maybe that will drive the prices of these really good lenses down .
Instead of punishing your brain thinking up witty sarcasm how about following my lead and making the lens review section more real time. Super Takumars generally are going up in price, perhaps due to the Takumar thread, perhaps due to the ease of getting adapters, higher prices mean that they now should be scored harder. e.g. a Super Takumar 85 that was €200 last year verses €350 this year should be rated more critically.
And it is a really good lens, just not a great one.
11-18-2010, 03:50 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by GhoSStrider Quote
I think part of the problem is that it's not an absolute scale for people. For example. I think the tendency is to rate a superzoom against the superzoom category. The 18-250 seems to get a lot of love and rates very well. Is it even remotely close to the performance of an FA 31, though? Not a chance. So as an absolute, it's rating should probably be at least a few points lower than the 8.6 average it's currently holding. However, compared to the superzoom class, I think the rating fits pretty well, and that's how I read it.

While it's not a perfect system, I think it works at least for me. I don't look at the numerics too much anyways. The comments are of far greater value to me.
Agreed. All of the reviews I have done are based on the "class" of the lens and the $ I paid for it. Perfect example if the Tamron 70-300. There are a ton of much better telephoto lenses out there but they're all 100s of dollars more (some even 7-8x as much) so for $150 I gave that lens an 8. I don't see anything wrong with that rating. You need to look at the rating and then read the persons comments to find out why they gave it that rating. A rating alone means nothing, but with a description is it very beneficial. It would be impossible to have a universal rating system for every single lens ever made. Exactly like the quote above me stated, the DA 18-250 cannot even come close to the IQ of the FA31 but does that mean the 18-250 should get a rating of 5 while the FA31 gets a 10? I think the review section is good the way it is, people just need to know how to read it.
11-18-2010, 04:07 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
............... The thread made me rethink some of my reviews and I dropped the Super Takumar 85 to a 7 ..............
Somebody get a rope!
11-18-2010, 04:36 PM   #27
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The review section is like anything else done through "democratic" principles: the results are fictive, inflated and even damaging. But the participants get that warm glow of satisfaction from "having their say", as if that, in and of itself, is an accomplishment.
11-18-2010, 04:38 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Somebody get a rope!
hehehe, I knew that might ruffle a few feathers... so far a burning effigy and now a rope...
What would I get if I said I preferred the f/1.9 version over the f/1.8 version and that is even more expensive and going totally nuts price wise... worth a 6 maybe?
11-18-2010, 04:45 PM   #29
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I have done over 30 lens reviews in the K series prime section.
The rating I assigned for each lens is based on the optics, value and overall usage against other K series primes. I think the lowest rating I gave was an 8, as all K series are very good lenses and well built.

However rating a K55/1.8 against a newer lens made for a DSLR would be pretty hard as one was designed for a FF film camera and one for APS-C sensor.

Phil.
11-18-2010, 04:46 PM   #30
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Well, reviewers have taken their time to provide you with information, that you get for free via Pentax forums. It seems like poor form to bad mouth the service. "I don't like these free cookies!" --> then don't eat them.

I can see how someone might want to encourage reviewers to be more helpful to them, but a positive approach might be more successful. Even so, good luck.

I try to avoid reviewing lenses while I own them, unless I really love them. I would hate to drag down the rating of a lens I might sell, and wouldn't want to inflate my rating to serve myself. I am sure these factors matter to others as well.
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