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12-19-2010, 01:56 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't know about poverty, I just have a couple of kids a couple hundred dollars times three or four adds up to real money in my household. I currently own three limiteds (DA 35, 40 and 70) and really have no desire for the FA limiteds. Would I take them if they were given to me? Sure, but I am quite satisfied (Take that, LBA!).
let's say hypothetically that all the FA LTD's cost at $1,000 as a whole, would you purchase the FA LTDS(not necessarily all of them) ?

12-19-2010, 02:04 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Otherwise, you would not read about people who once owned FA ltds. and swapped them for their DA counterparts. You read about people going BOTH ways and I've never seen anyone mention the swap was dictated by finances.
realistically and statistically speaking, more people swap their DA LTD lenses for the FA LTD. your example is what you consider as isolated cases which we cannot drew a general conclusion, otherwise a fallacy if one would make a generalization of equating it as a whole.

with regards to anyone swap certain lenses due to finances, maybe you haven't been paying attention to the marketplace.
12-19-2010, 02:14 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
lens purchase is also influenced by financial capability. unless you are a part of corporate america that you max out your credit card and get yourself into trouble with the credit card companies and lose your home. or purchase stuff eventhough you are dead broke and dont have a job. well, good luck and I hope it is all worth it.
????????

Ok, so this is all to say that in all circumstances, the FA LTD lenses are superior lenses to the DA LTD lenses? Money is a factor, yes it is. But more expensive also does not equal better. Regardless of one's financial situation.

PS, I am a student. I fund my current hobby by selling gear from the previous one. It has worked well. I'm a cheap b*****d. Proud of it, if anything. I see value in the DA line, and the FA line. I could choose to buy an FA lens after selling some other gear at no cost to me what so ever, I simply don't want to because I am not convinced it will be at all beneficial.

However it is simply impossible to talk about how the DA lenses might have their own strengths, outside of price, on this forum, without a bunch of people just pouncing on you. It's just silly really. I believe the DA ltds have their own purpose... they are not second fiddle to the FA line as a rule.

And they are not cheap. I give up.
12-19-2010, 03:15 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
I could choose to buy an FA lens after selling some other gear at no cost to me what so ever, I simply don't want to because I am not convinced it will be at all beneficial.
... they are not second fiddle to the FA line as a rule.

And they are not cheap. I give up.
That's fine. Just bear in mind that not being convinced FA ltds are of any benefit to you personally does not imply they are not more beneficial than DA ltds to others.

Nobody's saying DA ltds are cheap - clearly, they are cheap*er* in price to the FA ltds, and yes, this does not mean they are cheaper in themselves to the FA ltds, but there is still value for the added speed the FA ltds have over the DA ltds - and there are subtleties that make the FA ltds acclaimed for the widely accepted (but not in any way substantiated) 'pixie dust'.

12-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
????????

Ok, so this is all to say that in all circumstances, the FA LTD lenses are superior lenses to the DA LTD lenses? Money is a factor, yes it is. But more expensive also does not equal better. Regardless of one's financial situation.

PS, I am a student. I fund my current hobby by selling gear from the previous one. It has worked well. I'm a cheap b*****d. Proud of it, if anything. I see value in the DA line, and the FA line. I could choose to buy an FA lens after selling some other gear at no cost to me what so ever, I simply don't want to because I am not convinced it will be at all beneficial.

However it is simply impossible to talk about how the DA lenses might have their own strengths, outside of price, on this forum, without a bunch of people just pouncing on you. It's just silly really. I believe the DA ltds have their own purpose... they are not second fiddle to the FA line as a rule.

And they are not cheap. I give up.

it seems like you took offense on the word cheap. does cheap meant subpar to you? because I dont have that notion. subpar to me means unsatisfactory or ugly if I were to word it on some terms, not cheap. and besides, people would look for cheap price rather than expensive price, who wouldn't be? it's practical and affordable. as ASH mentioned, you not being convinced personally of the FA LTDs does not imply they are not more beneficial than to others. again, this is going along with the concept of statistics. out of 10 people, if you or two aren't into FA LTDs, that does not mean the the remaining majority don't have a valid or logical reason of favoring the FA LTDs. there is no need to talk about which strength has one over the other and beat the topic to death over and over again. or you might think that is is an statistical anomaly which I don't believe it is.
12-19-2010, 05:05 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
????????

Ok, so this is all to say that in all circumstances, the FA LTD lenses are superior lenses to the DA LTD lenses? Money is a factor, yes it is. But more expensive also does not equal better. Regardless of one's financial situation.

PS, I am a student. I fund my current hobby by selling gear from the previous one. It has worked well. I'm a cheap b*****d. Proud of it, if anything. I see value in the DA line, and the FA line. I could choose to buy an FA lens after selling some other gear at no cost to me what so ever, I simply don't want to because I am not convinced it will be at all beneficial.

However it is simply impossible to talk about how the DA lenses might have their own strengths, outside of price, on this forum, without a bunch of people just pouncing on you. It's just silly really. I believe the DA ltds have their own purpose... they are not second fiddle to the FA line as a rule.

And they are not cheap. I give up.
Rule No 1: Thou shall not slander the FA Limiteds!
Rule No 2: The DA Limiteds shall know their place beneath the FA Limiteds!
Rule No 3: The 200 Macro rules them all in all designations
Rule No 4: Honorable mention can be given to the following A*85, A*135, A50 f/1.2, and I think maybe the K28 f/2.0 (if only bcause of the Zeiss conection) + of course the FA* super telephoto line



I've been wondering about your persistance with arguing against the FA Limiteds at what it seems to me is any given opportunity. Price does not matter, they are all very expensive despite what any of us say, however they have a premium build with this. There are only 2 lens in the Limited line that could be regarded as reasonable value and they are the DA35 f/2.8 macro and DA40 f/2.4. Where I think you are missing the point completely is the Philososphy of the lens series design. The FA Limiteds were designed to produce a likeable image, that is their whole reason of being, the so called Pixie dust factor which is really their 3D rendering and not some mathematical construct. They were manually tuned to enhance this effect and it fortunately works the same on both film and in digital. Pentax were brave in that they allowed their lead designers leeway to do this and some like the idea of this, that some genius lens designer(s) wanted to do it this way and thet were allowed. The FA Limited thread shows how successful they were. The DA's, the pancakes at least were Pentax going back to their miniaturisation mode again which is another philosophy again and with it different design considerations. I would say that the FA Limiteds are successors to the K line, the DA Limiteds the successors to the M line and that comment alone might kick off a whole new debate
I wonder if there are competing factions within Pentax that was constantly at war with each other, one esposing the miniature approach, the other the fastest and best with each gaining or losing the higher ground with each new series.

Last edited by robbiec; 12-20-2010 at 04:30 PM.
12-19-2010, 08:02 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
????????

Ok, so this is all to say that in all circumstances, the FA LTD lenses are superior lenses to the DA LTD lenses? Money is a factor, yes it is. But more expensive also does not equal better. Regardless of one's financial situation.

PS, I am a student. I fund my current hobby by selling gear from the previous one. It has worked well. I'm a cheap b*****d. Proud of it, if anything. I see value in the DA line, and the FA line. I could choose to buy an FA lens after selling some other gear at no cost to me what so ever, I simply don't want to because I am not convinced it will be at all beneficial.

However it is simply impossible to talk about how the DA lenses might have their own strengths, outside of price, on this forum, without a bunch of people just pouncing on you. It's just silly really. I believe the DA ltds have their own purpose... they are not second fiddle to the FA line as a rule.

And they are not cheap. I give up.
The title of this thread is DA ltds V FA ltds. If you post one side of the argument expect a response from the other

I dont really see a bunch of people on here knocking the DA ltds which is what you seem to indicate by people posting and defending their love of the FA ltds.

I have three FA ltds and one DA limited... money might be a big factor to people but you pay for what you get, if you are more than happy with your DA's then good for you.... maybe also ask some of the FA defenders if they have used DA limiteds as they may have experience with both series.

Do you have experience with FA limiteds? ..

I for one would never sell mine, I cherish them more than other lenses and or cameras that I own


cheers

Neil
12-19-2010, 10:30 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
The title of this thread is DA ltds V FA ltds. If you post one side of the argument expect a response from the other

I dont really see a bunch of people on here knocking the DA ltds which is what you seem to indicate by people posting and defending their love of the FA ltds.

I have three FA ltds and one DA limited... money might be a big factor to people but you pay for what you get, if you are more than happy with your DA's then good for you.... maybe also ask some of the FA defenders if they have used DA limiteds as they may have experience with both series.

Do you have experience with FA limiteds? ..

I for one would never sell mine, I cherish them more than other lenses and or cameras that I own


cheers

Neil

you are absolutely right Neil. nobody is really knocking on the DA LTD and my preference on the FA LTDs over the DA LTDs has got to do with the experiences I have with both LTD lenses. if I have the cash, I would had gotten myself an FA31 and I choose it over the DA35 and DA40 any day. I don't find the DA35 macro appealing for me but find the DA40 much more nicer than it. FA77 is one lens that I'm impressed with, and if I weren't just into the fast 85mm, the FA77 would be my 2nd choice on the short telephoto department. DA70 is maybe near as good as my Sigma 70 macro. IQ for the Sigma, DA70 for the AF performance and size.

again, this is more in terms of experience I have with both lenses and I'm not into the trading stuff just to afford the lenses. I'd rather save as much as I can.

mind you that I don't own either LTD series, but had used them. so any bias would be easily dismissible.

would I consider owning a DA LTD lens? Yes, the DA40 but just because I like it's pancake size and I like it's good rendering. would I consider owning an FA LTD lens? Yes, much more so especially the FA31, if I can just afford it. maybe next year? we'll see on how much we'll get for tax reimbursement. would I own both lenses? it depends since I lean towards the FA31 more. again, the cute size is the only thing that I love most about the DA40. other than that, FA31 all the way.

btw, I don't comment on lenses that I haven't actually tried nor does it make sense to make comparisons if you haven't done so.


Last edited by Pentaxor; 12-19-2010 at 10:56 PM.
12-19-2010, 11:03 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
The title of this thread is DA ltds V FA ltds. If you post one side of the argument expect a response from the other

I dont really see a bunch of people on here knocking the DA ltds which is what you seem to indicate by people posting and defending their love of the FA ltds.

I have three FA ltds and one DA limited... money might be a big factor to people but you pay for what you get, if you are more than happy with your DA's then good for you.... maybe also ask some of the FA defenders if they have used DA limiteds as they may have experience with both series.

Do you have experience with FA limiteds? ..

I for one would never sell mine, I cherish them more than other lenses and or cameras that I own


cheers

Neil
You make some very good points here. My favorite or most all around lens on my digital bodies is the DA 35mm LTD. Then it is the FA 77mm LTD followed by tie among the DA 21mm LTD, F 28/2.8 and FA 50/1.4. The FA 43 has been calling my name. You brought up a good point that no one is jumping on the DA LTD lenses, but actually taking up for the FA series in these threads.
12-20-2010, 01:20 AM   #40
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Following this thread makes me think of how much spoiled we are with Pentax great lenses!

No matter if one can afford Ltd lenses or not, they're still here for us to upgrade to. The Ltd's, FA or DA is truly amazing lenses that there are no comparison to in terms of the whole package they deliver.

I find the FA road to much for my use, so my path as a hobbyist is within the DA Ltd range. If i can buy one once in a year, im happy.
Still, the DA's are good and capable enough to make a living of in photography. For example the DA 70 wich is in fact so good you can easily use it as a pro lens.
12-20-2010, 03:54 AM   #41
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Currently if I bought all of the FA limiteds, it would cost me $2319.85 (from B and H). If I bought the DA 15, 40 and 70, it would cost me $1389.85. That is a thousand dollars difference and gets me wider than the FA lenses would (although not as long). As to whether or not I would have bought the FA limiteds if they all cost a thousand dollars collectively, probably not. If they cost a thousand dollars then the DA limiteds would cost five hundred dollars and I would probably go with that. I know my skill set and I cannot fully use the DA limiteds, how would I use the FA limiteds?

A lot of the difference in photographs has to do with the skill level of the photographer. Give a good photographer a DA limited and a hobbyist (like me) an FA limited and observe the results. Pixie dust or not, my photos are going to look like snap shots and their photos will look like professional work.

I agree that the FA limiteds offer more than the DA limiteds. However, Wheatfield has already commented that he prefers the DA 70 to the FA 77 (for whatever reason).

I would make one further comment: when you are chasing around toddlers, having the faster auto focus of the DA limiteds (along with quick shift ability) is a major advantage.
12-20-2010, 05:15 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
No, but it could account somewhat for color..

its only you yanks that spell it that way..the rest of the english speaking world spell it colour...LMAO....
12-20-2010, 05:40 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you are absolutely right Neil. nobody is really knocking on the DA LTD and my preference on the FA LTDs over the DA LTDs has got to do with the experiences I have with both LTD lenses. if I have the cash, I would had gotten myself an FA31 and I choose it over the DA35 and DA40 any day. I don't find the DA35 macro appealing for me but find the DA40 much more nicer than it. FA77 is one lens that I'm impressed with, and if I weren't just into the fast 85mm, the FA77 would be my 2nd choice on the short telephoto department. DA70 is maybe near as good as my Sigma 70 macro. IQ for the Sigma, DA70 for the AF performance and size.

again, this is more in terms of experience I have with both lenses and I'm not into the trading stuff just to afford the lenses. I'd rather save as much as I can..
They are both excellent and I'd love to have all of both. You could use some DA and FA lenses im similar situtations, but I see them as different animals. It is not just a matter of cost. The DA lenses are tiny compared to the FA--almost half the length in most cases. You can travel with 15mm to 70mm covered in sharp primes for less volume and weight than a 15-70 zoom. You can't do that with the FA series. However, if I could only have one prime lens as my entire kit, it would probably be an FA.

I own both the DA70 and the FA77, and I have no great desire to shed either one of them. IMHO, they serve different purposes. Oddly, the only DALtd lens I don't own is the excellent DA35, and it is partly because I lust after the FA31, and want it for film as well, and partly because the little DA40 suits my digital needs so well. Given its price, miniscule size and performance, the DA40 that no Pentax owner should be without even if one has the excellent FA43 in the stable.

Last edited by GeneV; 12-20-2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Typo
12-20-2010, 10:13 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
its only you yanks that spell it that way..the rest of the english speaking world spell it colour...LMAO....
I'm glad someone caught that.
12-20-2010, 10:31 AM   #45
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I rented the FA31 and 77 yesterday for a shoot.
Most enjoyable $40 I have ever spent.
My wife is scared of the lens cabinet expansion now - but she doesn't have to worry. I just can't drop that much on those two lenses as much as I'd like too.
I'd like to now try some DA Limiteds for comparison.
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